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[John from Kentucky]

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2109.0.html

[2]  Satan is an "angel" which means "messenger" in both Hebrew and Greek (II Cor. 11:14).

The above is a direct quote from Ray Smith.  But to listen to some of the scriptural scholars and teachers among us, I guess Ray is wrong.  Oh well, what can you expect from a mere roofer.   

I thought one reason for this Forum was to discuss the scriptural understandings of Ray Smith. 



People like to say they appreciate the teachings of Ray.  They like to say they know and believe in the Scriptures.  They like to say how much they love people, and how humble they are, and how good they are.

One thing I learned from Ray, and Jesus, and the Spirit of God.  Most people, the Many, are full of spiritual crap, and they do not like it when they are exposed.

Hi John,

I agree with Kat, just wanted you to understand that, Ray explained to all of us about the twelve spiritual truths, did Ray explain these things so we could not advance in knowledge ?

If someone starts talking to us in a direction that leads us away from the truth then we can deal with that lying spirit at the time we discover it.

I wonder how much Ray would of understood  the things of God if he were told not to deviate from the teachings of Christendom ?

I believe you understand John, don’t be afraid to grow in knowledge and truth beyond Ray, he gave us enough to go on and grow, its like Kat said we stand behind Ray, John, but there is something more important than Ray here, and that would be Christ, why hinder the spirit ?

I do commend you for your loyalty to Ray but you know John, your not the only one loyal  to Ray John, but our loyalty should be to Christ and Christ only, if you feel diffident I’ll not argue with you, go for it. 
                           
ct 5:39  However, if it's from God, you won't be able to stop them. You may even discover that you're fighting against God."

You’re a smart man John, in the things of God, no doubt.

Take care John and God bless you.

Hello Rick,

I follow Jesus.  One thing I disagreed with Ray on was Ray calling himself a teacher.  I have Scripture that says only Jesus is our teacher.

But be that as it may, Ray was a powerful expounder of God's Word.  He was especially strong in providing at least two witnesses of Scripture on the points he was making.  It was the Scriptures and God's Spirit that made Ray's statements powerful.

And before you think Ray was wrong in the email I quoted, you should become more learned in the Scriptures yourself.  Ray does have at least two Scriptures to support his statement in that email.  I know those Scriptures, do you?  Before you reject what Ray wrote, you should find those Scriptures and see if you can refute them.

A lot of the chatter on here is based on personality.  Who likes who.

But a true man of God follows that Scripture that says we should tremble at God's Word.  My advice to you is to put God and His Word first in your life, before supposed teachings of men.

Let me let you in on a secret.  The Many, both here and in the World, do not follow the two witnesses.  What they will do is do a scripture dump, where they will quote many Scriptures, then proceed to give you their opinions on what the Scriptures mean.

Do not be deceived.

What Ray showed us is that one needs at least two Scriptures to establish a Truth.  The two Scriptures do not need interpretation.  The Two Scriptures, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, will clearly show the Truth and it will not contradict any other Scripture.  God does not lie and His Word does not lie.  Those are paramount Truths as old roofer Ray said.

But some here will admit they do not know the Scriptural answer on something, then proceed to quote Scriptures, then give us their opinion.  The blind follow the blind.

Put so called teachers to a test.  Ask them to provide the Two Witnesses to their statements.  Two clear Scriptures.  Most cannot or will not do that.

Compare the clarity of what Ray wrote to the confused ramblings of many teacher wannabes.

Before you throw Ray aside, for more truth, make sure you know where you are being led.  Just sayin.

May God bless your path too,

John

[lilitalienboi16]

JFK,

I love you man. Your humility is an inspiration      

[Gina]

I just thought of something...Jesus said we will know them by their fruit. 

Jesus didn't say we would know them for what they really are (deceitful spirits / deceitful workers / workers of lawlessness) by their appearance.   Because you can't know them by their appearance -- they're wolves disguised in sheep's clothing; wolves masquerading as sheep/shepherds.  They're darnel which looks very similar in appearance to the true wheat.

Jesus didn't say that we would know them by what name or title they go by or by what name or title anyone gives them.  We will know them for what they truly are (deceitful workers of lawlessness) by their fruit.

Jesus didn't say we would know them by the positions of authority they slither into. 

We will know them for what they truly are by their fruit.

[rick]

JFK,

I love you man. Your humility is an inspiration      

Hi Alex,

We all appreciate your admiration and love for our brother J from K , but why not add to this tread and let the rest of us know what your take is on the subject.

But to only say ( I love you man ) well ,what are we to do with that? Just wondering my brother in Christ.

[Gina]

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  Matt 24:24

The comforting news is:  If you're an elect, it is not possible to be deceived or come under the spell of these false workers, false messiahs, and false prophets (you will never worship them or be led astray by them, so be of good cheer).

(They deceive themselves, so be sober, be vigilant.  Believe that if Bible-truths was to fold and go up in smoke tomorrow (not that I wish that), God would see you through.  He will never forsake you.)

[lilitalienboi16]

JFK,

I love you man. Your humility is an inspiration      

Hi Alex,

We all appreciate your admiration and love for our brother J from K , but why not add to this tread and let the rest of us know what your take is on the subject.

But to only say ( I love you man ) well ,what are we to do with that? Just wondering my brother in Christ.

Hi Rick,

I'm sorry I have not contributed. I don't want to add any confusion to what already appears to be a dizzying array of perspectives. Give me some time and I will try and share if I feel that my response can be more than, "I agree with what so-and-so said."

God bless,
Alex

[rick]

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2109.0.html

[2]  Satan is an "angel" which means "messenger" in both Hebrew and Greek (II Cor. 11:14).

The above is a direct quote from Ray Smith.  But to listen to some of the scriptural scholars and teachers among us, I guess Ray is wrong.  Oh well, what can you expect from a mere roofer.   

I thought one reason for this Forum was to discuss the scriptural understandings of Ray Smith. 



People like to say they appreciate the teachings of Ray.  They like to say they know and believe in the Scriptures.  They like to say how much they love people, and how humble they are, and how good they are.

One thing I learned from Ray, and Jesus, and the Spirit of God.  Most people, the Many, are full of spiritual crap, and they do not like it when they are exposed.

Hi John,

I agree with Kat, just wanted you to understand that, Ray explained to all of us about the twelve spiritual truths, did Ray explain these things so we could not advance in knowledge ?

If someone starts talking to us in a direction that leads us away from the truth then we can deal with that lying spirit at the time we discover it.

I wonder how much Ray would of understood  the things of God if he were told not to deviate from the teachings of Christendom ?

I believe you understand John, don’t be afraid to grow in knowledge and truth beyond Ray, he gave us enough to go on and grow, its like Kat said we stand behind Ray, John, but there is something more important than Ray here, and that would be Christ, why hinder the spirit ?

I do commend you for your loyalty to Ray but you know John, your not the only one loyal  to Ray John, but our loyalty should be to Christ and Christ only, if you feel diffident I’ll not argue with you, go for it. 
                           
ct 5:39  However, if it's from God, you won't be able to stop them. You may even discover that you're fighting against God."

You’re a smart man John, in the things of God, no doubt.

Take care John and God bless you.

Hello Rick,

I follow Jesus.  One thing I disagreed with Ray on was Ray calling himself a teacher.  I have Scripture that says only Jesus is our teacher.

But be that as it may, Ray was a powerful expounder of God's Word.  He was especially strong in providing at least two witnesses of Scripture on the points he was making.  It was the Scriptures and God's Spirit that made Ray's statements powerful.

And before you think Ray was wrong in the email I quoted, you should become more learned in the Scriptures yourself.  Ray does have at least two Scriptures to support his statement in that email.  I know those Scriptures, do you?  Before you reject what Ray wrote, you should find those Scriptures and see if you can refute them.

A lot of the chatter on here is based on personality.  Who likes who.

But a true man of God follows that Scripture that says we should tremble at God's Word.  My advice to you is to put God and His Word first in your life, before supposed teachings of men.

Let me let you in on a secret.  The Many, both here and in the World, do not follow the two witnesses.  What they will do is do a scripture dump, where they will quote many Scriptures, then proceed to give you their opinions on what the Scriptures mean.

Do not be deceived.

What Ray showed us is that one needs at least two Scriptures to establish a Truth.  The two Scriptures do not need interpretation.  The Two Scriptures, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, will clearly show the Truth and it will not contradict any other Scripture.  God does not lie and His Word does not lie.  Those are paramount Truths as old roofer Ray said.

But some here will admit they do not know the Scriptural answer on something, then proceed to quote Scriptures, then give us their opinion.  The blind follow the blind.

Put so called teachers to a test.  Ask them to provide the Two Witnesses to their statements.  Two clear Scriptures.  Most cannot or will not do that.

Compare the clarity of what Ray wrote to the confused ramblings of many teacher wannabes.

Before you throw Ray aside, for more truth, make sure you know where you are being led.  Just sayin.

May God bless your path too,

John

Hi John,

Don’t think I don’t appreciate your wisdom and understanding in the things of God, only a fool would not.

I remember a time when you ridicule another and myself for saying things without using scripture and I only want to say I was wrong and you were right. I’m not a prophet as you once referred to me as I’m a nobody in this life, may God keep it that way also.

You taught me the important’s of using at least two scriptures when talking about the things of God. I hope you notices lately that I do used scripture these days when expressing what I believe.

I love your zeal for both God and truth and I know only Jesus can bring such things about, I read your reply and the warnings therein you mentioned and am very thankful you care enough to say so.

My intentions here is not to cause strife or dissension, I like you, desire the truth, life is difficult John, and learning the truth is even more difficult and being or getting saved is even harder.

Please, don’t put me on the list of those who prefer you not, I personally think you’re a man who just wants the truth and has no issue exposing those who contradict, and for that John, I do thank you.

May God just not bless you alone but may He bless us all.   

[rick]

JFK,

I love you man. Your humility is an inspiration      

Hi Alex,

We all appreciate your admiration and love for our brother J from K , but why not add to this tread and let the rest of us know what your take is on the subject.

But to only say ( I love you man ) well ,what are we to do with that? Just wondering my brother in Christ.

Hi Rick,

I'm sorry I have not contributed. I don't want to add any confusion to what already appears to be a dizzying array of perspectives. Give me some time and I will try and share if I feel that my response can be more than, "I agree with what so-and-so said."

God bless,
Alex

Hi Alex,

I understand your meaning Alex however I know you have so much to offer, and you really do Alex, I’m sorry you feel things have become a disarray of understanding, but please don’t feel your input would keep us there in that which you believe where in.

I hope your studies as a doctor are going well for you, I think you’ll do well Alex, your very smart and I’m happy for you, May God keep you in His wisdom and may people’s health stay good in your care.

God bless you my brother in Christ, if I’m fortunate enough to be in Christ, then we are brothers if not, I’m sure you’ll be kind and helpful to me in the next life. God bless.

[Ian 155]

Is Satan a real literal spirit or is Satan a figurative type of figure ? According to 1Pe 5:8 and Luk 8:44 and Luk 18:8 Satan is a literal spirit.

1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Luk 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

According to statistics there are six billion people on earth today and are all six billion people being effected by one spirit being? Are there enough hours in the day for one spirit being to deceive an entire world full of people ?

Well, according to Luk 18:8 there must be however no one scripture is of its own interpretation and I was not able to find another match for Luk 18:8 at this time but I shall keep searching. 

Luk 18:8  I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
But still I’m left with this though, is Satan a real literal spirit being or is Satan a system, what I mean by a system is I’m remembering back sometime ago while mowing my lawn and hit a foreign object that had been ejected through my above ground pool wall and the pool liner and lost all the water from the hole made by this object.

After calling the insurance company I discovered I was not covered from the damage caused by my lawn mower and me however I was told if someone rammed a knife through the pool wall and liner I would of been covered meaning they will cover vandalism, a hole is a hole to me but they used it as a loophole to not pay out.

This type of business can cause one to be disingenuous rather than being honest. There is a hidden system in this world that hurt honest people. This world encourages one to be dishonest.   

Hi Rick ... My Own words - I can elaborate but to start...

I believe that Satan is the carnal influence and I firmly believe Jesus is The Spiritual influence

"Heart"  is ones mind (translated) i.E. heart of stone vs heart of flesh

I have many scriptures, however if I dump them and one has a carnal mind what good is that.

Satan will present the opposite of what the word presents But to the carnal mind he appears as an angel of light (he makes common sense)as opposed to the word which makes no (common sense) but is generally abrasive and against that which is taught by men...

Satan does fall like lightening from heaven - this is, understanding where heaven is... firstly my word tells me heaven is within us so heaven is not "up there" luk 17v21 heaven to me is a realm of higher understanding (above the intelligence of mere man)once you are filled with Gods spirit (which is a process) you will walk above the "sea" of humanity and when you get pulled down into it ,you are able to call out as Peter did "Lord save me" matt 14v30 (when one is born one is immediately cast into THIS WORLD (system) after a time you OVERCOME THIS WORLD.

Satan falls like lightening when the Spirit imparts understanding when this happens there is usually much violence in as much as wrestling with past knowledge that one has acquired from Satan (carnal mind).Matt 11v12 as opposed to a new understanding from the Holy Spirit, Ezekiel 36v26

Also important is the 1st few words namely The Kingdom of Heaven COMES....(whether we like it or not) to me this is a process there is a lot of "clutter" to get rid of 1st.. some would say that is the purpose of this lifetime in the worldly sense.

I believe and I have scripture that even in this world...one can walk above (in the heavens)

To Say "Satan Made me do it" is not far from the truth, according to Gen 3v13 . You answer is the verse preceding v 13

To wrap up ,Consider this... The Spirit brings life and peace  John 6 vs 63 as opposed to Rom 8v6 

THIS ABOVE IS  MY UNDERSTANDING THOUGH


PS
There are ways to get your compensation for your pool.. don't fear a major insurance company, take them on ... That is, if you believe you are a "citizen"

[Gina]

Is Satan a real literal spirit or is Satan a figurative type of figure ? According to 1Pe 5:8 and Luk 8:44 and Luk 18:8 Satan is a literal spirit.

1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Luk 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

According to statistics there are six billion people on earth today and are all six billion people being effected by one spirit being? Are there enough hours in the day for one spirit being to deceive an entire world full of people ?

Well, according to Luk 18:8 there must be however no one scripture is of its own interpretation and I was not able to find another match for Luk 18:8 at this time but I shall keep searching. 

Luk 18:8  I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
But still I’m left with this though, is Satan a real literal spirit being or is Satan a system, what I mean by a system is I’m remembering back sometime ago while mowing my lawn and hit a foreign object that had been ejected through my above ground pool wall and the pool liner and lost all the water from the hole made by this object.

After calling the insurance company I discovered I was not covered from the damage caused by my lawn mower and me however I was told if someone rammed a knife through the pool wall and liner I would of been covered meaning they will cover vandalism, a hole is a hole to me but they used it as a loophole to not pay out.

This type of business can cause one to be disingenuous rather than being honest. There is a hidden system in this world that hurt honest people. This world encourages one to be dishonest.   

Hi Rick ... My Own words - I can elaborate but to start...

I believe that Satan is the carnal influence and I firmly believe Jesus is The Spiritual influence

"Heart"  is ones mind (translated) i.E. heart of stone vs heart of flesh

I have many scriptures, however if I dump them and one has a carnal mind what good is that.

Satan will present the opposite of what the word presents But to the carnal mind he appears as an angel of light (he makes common sense)as opposed to the word which makes no (common sense) but is generally abrasive and against that which is taught by men...

Satan does fall like lightening from heaven - this is, understanding where heaven is... firstly my word tells me heaven is within us so heaven is not "up there" luk 17v21 heaven to me is a realm of higher understanding (above the intelligence of mere man)once you are filled with Gods spirit (which is a process) you will walk above the "sea" of humanity and when you get pulled down into it ,you are able to call out as Peter did "Lord save me" matt 14v30 (when one is born one is immediately cast into THIS WORLD (system) after a time you OVERCOME THIS WORLD.

Satan falls like lightening when the Spirit imparts understanding when this happens there is usually much violence in as much as wrestling with past knowledge that one has acquired from Satan (carnal mind).Matt 11v12 as opposed to a new understanding from the Holy Spirit, Ezekiel 36v26

Also important is the 1st few words namely The Kingdom of Heaven COMES....(whether we like it or not) to me this is a process there is a lot of "clutter" to get rid of 1st.. some would say that is the purpose of this lifetime in the worldly sense.

I believe and I have scripture that even in this world...one can walk above (in the heavens)

To Say "Satan Made me do it" is not far from the truth, according to Gen 3v13 . You answer is the verse preceding v 13

To wrap up ,Consider this... The Spirit brings life and peace  John 6 vs 63 as opposed to Rom 8v6 

THIS ABOVE IS  MY UNDERSTANDING THOUGH


PS
There are ways to get your compensation for your pool.. don't fear a major insurance company, take them on ... That is, if you believe you are a "citizen"

Ian,

I don't know -- are you saying that Satan is the carnal mind?  Because Satan is not the carnal mind, my friend.  Satan feeds on the carnal minds of people.

If you read all of the replies from Rick, you'd see that Rick took the high road and the peaceful way.  Rick fixed his own pool.  He didn't need to argue or grapple or go to law against these people, because God gave Rick the ability to be handy when it comes to things like that.  It was all a test for Rick to see that God is with him and he doesn't need to worry that when things like this creep up that God will not be there for him.  I would never suggest that any brother in Christ or anyone for that matter, resort to going to law when it comes to these "little things."  It's an exercise in futility.  Carnal institutions like the insurance companies don't back down easily - they are beasts.  Trust in the Lord and He will direct your paths.  God didn't let Rick slide into carnal thinking of "taking anyone on."

Outside of those two small things, a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense and resonates with me.  Thanks for sharing, Ian

Gina

[indianabob]

Hi again Gina and Alex,

I think that Rick has settled his claim with the insurance as Gina says. Not entirely happy but not gonna let it bother him.

On the other hand, for Alex, I think we should remember that the insurance policy is a legal contract and the company has the right and even the obligation to it's stock holders, to limit the payment of claims to those that they owe according to the "contract".

If you insure your $100,000.00 home for $70,000.00 in order to save a little on the premium and a tornado takes the whole house over to the next County, all you are going to get to pay off your bank loan is the promised $70,000.00. The claims adjuster is not a charity with "tons" of extra money laying around to dole out to needy folks who didn't buy enough protection to cover their true needs. Of course you already know this, so I'm just reminding you of that fact.
We have to read the fine print in any contract we sign and be sure that we understand what we have and what we do not have.
In my own personal experience as a small claims adjuster/agent, the company was most interested in getting the legitimate claims paid quickly and the release forms signed and filed away. When I paid for a broken auto windshield I took pains to insure that the glass was properly installed so that there would be no complaints against me or the company. That is how an agent builds a successful business.

I don't know the details of the contract in question, but I do know that there are several levels of protection available at various increasing costs.

Hope my comments may be helpful. I-bob

[Gina]

Great info, iBob.  Yeah, God's been very kind to me.  I have never had a problem with any insurance company, so far.  I've had my car stolen by someone years ago and the insurance company paid for the rest of the car note and gave me a little more so that I'd have enough to make a decent down payment on my next car.  The police even called me a year later to let me know that they found my car.  They found it in Mexico.  The cop told me that it was stripped of everything.  The only thing that hadn't been done to it was that it hadn't been burned.  LOL That's what the cop told me over the phone - this was back in 1991.  I had my new car and I was fine.  I had a good laugh about that (because truthfully, who ever stole that car, did me a huge favor.)

Same thing when I had my car radio stolen twice.  It's the way of the world.  It's not the insurance company's so much as it is the way of the world and it's really all so that we will ultimately believe that God is with us and there is no temptation that has overtaken you but that which is common to man, and will not be so much that you cannot bear it.  But along with the temptation, God will make a way through it so that we aren't overtaken (by emotion, sin, theft, ill-will, etc.).  God is working all things are for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose.  This stuff comes to pass..  It doesn't come to stay, it comes and it passes when we learn all there is to learn from the trials and sufferings.

Thanks for your input iBob.  Yeah, I work with a former insurance adjuster, and he was very kind and very generous and very truthful and honest.

[rick]

Is Satan a real literal spirit or is Satan a figurative type of figure ? According to 1Pe 5:8 and Luk 8:44 and Luk 18:8 Satan is a literal spirit.

1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Luk 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

According to statistics there are six billion people on earth today and are all six billion people being effected by one spirit being? Are there enough hours in the day for one spirit being to deceive an entire world full of people ?

Well, according to Luk 18:8 there must be however no one scripture is of its own interpretation and I was not able to find another match for Luk 18:8 at this time but I shall keep searching. 

Luk 18:8  I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
But still I’m left with this though, is Satan a real literal spirit being or is Satan a system, what I mean by a system is I’m remembering back sometime ago while mowing my lawn and hit a foreign object that had been ejected through my above ground pool wall and the pool liner and lost all the water from the hole made by this object.

After calling the insurance company I discovered I was not covered from the damage caused by my lawn mower and me however I was told if someone rammed a knife through the pool wall and liner I would of been covered meaning they will cover vandalism, a hole is a hole to me but they used it as a loophole to not pay out.

This type of business can cause one to be disingenuous rather than being honest. There is a hidden system in this world that hurt honest people. This world encourages one to be dishonest.   

I believe that Satan is the carnal influence and I firmly believe Jesus is The Spiritual influence

Hi Ian,


This statement you made brought a few scriptures to mind , one of them is

( Rom 8:20  For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope )

I don’t believe God created us with inherent evil, I believe God created us spiritually weak.

 The next scripture is ,

( Rom 7:19  For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. )

These are not the words of a man born with inherent evil but a man who wants to do the right thing but is unable because he is spiritually to weak to do all the good he would do if able.

I don’t think your saying Satan is our carnal mind but rather Satan influences our carnal minds away from God but this presents a problem for me because of this scripture,

Rom 8:7  because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

So, why does Satan need to influence our mind when by birth our mind is already in a state of  enmity against God ?

You said that Christ is the spiritual influence of our minds, so now with that scenario we are now like a receiver tuning in to both Christ and Satan but Joh 6:44 disputes that. 

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Now, the only way Christ can influence our mind would mean God the Father would have to actually draw the person to Christ but if God the Father draws not the person to Christ then we are still confronted with Rom 8:7

Rom 8:7  because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

I’m still learning so if I’m in error please forgive me, its not intentional.

God bless.

[Gina]

I'm always wondering the same thing--why do we need to have an adversary if our minds are already feeling deep hatred toward God and are prone to disobey and are in fact already disobeying and far from Him?

A weak mind doesn't want to die.  It wants to have its cake and eat it too.  It wants to live the life of glory.  They weren't about to touch that tree after God told them they "might" die.

But we know that in order to be made in God's image we have to die (to self) first.  But the flesh / the carnal mind never thinks this way - the thoughts of a carnal man are much lower than the thoughts of God and it thinks it loves God when it really hates God. 

They think they love Him because they are doing exactly what He tells them to do; eat of all the trees in the garden and never eating of the tree of knowledge.

They were doing exactly what he said to do, too.  And that's all they could see. 

But they didn't really love Him.   He knew that.   But how do you get prideful people who live by sight and not faith, to admit that?  Did their pride ever blind them? 

(And their eyes were opened and they saw that they were naked ... and blind....)

Eve wasn't even touching the tree!  She must have thought she was being such a good little girl.

I can see how Eve, in talking with the serpent, drew close to God with her lips, but her heart was far from Him. 

She sounds like Jane Curtin in the Coneheads:

"Of.all.the.trees.we.are.eating.but.of.the.tree.in.the.
middle.God.said.do.not.eat.do.not.even.touch.it.lest.you.die."



She was bored and lonely or something.  Just the same way Adam was bored and lonely before the excitement of Eve came to life. 

Adam was lonely and bored out of his skull before Eve came to town.   

He's like: 

Wow!  Flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone! 

He's not: 

WOW!  I've finally got a friend I can talk to for a change!!!

All he saw was her body.   Flesh and bone.  Bone and flesh.

But he couldn't help it.  He was by nature a physical / visual creature.

She was no different.

She too needed some sort of helper meet, I imagine. 

I mean, before children or hardships or Satan enters the picture, there's not much a good girl can talk about with an "obedient God-fearing" carnal minded man. 

Nice day, idn't it.  Yep, sure is.....



She was bored! 

But Adam had all he ever wanted!  Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh.  "MY flesh" "MY bone." 

It comes across to me as a either a great comfort to him and/or a great source of pride to see this beautiful thing coming toward him or laying next to him after he woke up from that deep sleep, and knowing that THAT CAME FROM ME?  WOW, I am something, aren't I?

Nah, just kidding. 

I bet Adam wept like a baby when he saw Eve.  Like women weep when we meet our children for the first time.  We're like, Oh my gosh - look at this sweet little thing!!  So sweet!!!  I can't believe that came out of me!?  Awwww.  So sweet.

I think God thought they were both really sweet.

Otherwise, I don't see why God wouldn't just reach out and "smite  them."   He doesn't really need Satan for that.

"God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."
(God's like:  I'm not about to kill my children myself - they're so darn cute!  Look at them!! No, way, I just can't do it.  I'll have to make something else to do it. )

"Let no one say when he is tempted that he is tempted by God, because God tempts no one, neither can God be tempted.)

And apparently Adam and Eve were pretty tough to crack.  Eve wasn't going down so easy.  She must have been very hard to outwit.  Fleshly minded?  Yes.  Are there carnally-minded people in the world who are pretty blessed in the brains department?  Sure!

So God had to make her opposition the subtlest of all field life, the slickest clown in town was the only thing that could take her down.  I guess.  I don't know.



But I bet that selfish act of Satan's went directly to his head.  I bet Satan was so proud of himself for that.  Nom-nom-nom....gulp!

[Ian 155]

Is Satan a real literal spirit or is Satan a figurative type of figure ? According to 1Pe 5:8 and Luk 8:44 and Luk 18:8 Satan is a literal spirit.

1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Luk 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

According to statistics there are six billion people on earth today and are all six billion people being effected by one spirit being? Are there enough hours in the day for one spirit being to deceive an entire world full of people ?

Well, according to Luk 18:8 there must be however no one scripture is of its own interpretation and I was not able to find another match for Luk 18:8 at this time but I shall keep searching. 

Luk 18:8  I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
But still I’m left with this though, is Satan a real literal spirit being or is Satan a system, what I mean by a system is I’m remembering back sometime ago while mowing my lawn and hit a foreign object that had been ejected through my above ground pool wall and the pool liner and lost all the water from the hole made by this object.

After calling the insurance company I discovered I was not covered from the damage caused by my lawn mower and me however I was told if someone rammed a knife through the pool wall and liner I would of been covered meaning they will cover vandalism, a hole is a hole to me but they used it as a loophole to not pay out.

This type of business can cause one to be disingenuous rather than being honest. There is a hidden system in this world that hurt honest people. This world encourages one to be dishonest.   

Hi Rick ... My Own words - I can elaborate but to start...

I believe that Satan is the carnal influence and I firmly believe Jesus is The Spiritual influence

"Heart"  is ones mind (translated) i.E. heart of stone vs heart of flesh

I have many scriptures, however if I dump them and one has a carnal mind what good is that.

Satan will present the opposite of what the word presents But to the carnal mind he appears as an angel of light (he makes common sense)as opposed to the word which makes no (common sense) but is generally abrasive and against that which is taught by men...

Satan does fall like lightening from heaven - this is, understanding where heaven is... firstly my word tells me heaven is within us so heaven is not "up there" luk 17v21 heaven to me is a realm of higher understanding (above the intelligence of mere man)once you are filled with Gods spirit (which is a process) you will walk above the "sea" of humanity and when you get pulled down into it ,you are able to call out as Peter did "Lord save me" matt 14v30 (when one is born one is immediately cast into THIS WORLD (system) after a time you OVERCOME THIS WORLD.

Satan falls like lightening when the Spirit imparts understanding when this happens there is usually much violence in as much as wrestling with past knowledge that one has acquired from Satan (carnal mind).Matt 11v12 as opposed to a new understanding from the Holy Spirit, Ezekiel 36v26

Also important is the 1st few words namely The Kingdom of Heaven COMES....(whether we like it or not) to me this is a process there is a lot of "clutter" to get rid of 1st.. some would say that is the purpose of this lifetime in the worldly sense.

I believe and I have scripture that even in this world...one can walk above (in the heavens)

To Say "Satan Made me do it" is not far from the truth, according to Gen 3v13 . You answer is the verse preceding v 13

To wrap up ,Consider this... The Spirit brings life and peace  John 6 vs 63 as opposed to Rom 8v6 

THIS ABOVE IS  MY UNDERSTANDING THOUGH


PS
There are ways to get your compensation for your pool.. don't fear a major insurance company, take them on ... That is, if you believe you are a "citizen"

Ian,

I don't know -- are you saying that Satan is the carnal mind?  Because Satan is not the carnal mind, my friend.  Satan feeds on the carnal minds of people.

Gina

Hey,yes It should have read "who influences the carnal mind"that mind,being "influenceable" if there is such a word - being weak

I understand that to be "carnally minded" is Death to be "Christ Minded" is Life and peace If one is carnally minded they think and act like their Father who is the Devil and vice versa concerning the mind of Christ...  He the Devil is the prince of the air, we overcome him by being given understanding and implementing the (way & truth & life) of the Word. 

If one has not been regenerated one walks according to the law, which leads/brings one to "death" (this is the outward understanding of the word and is necessary ) there is a huge difference when one is not thinking according to the shadow...but has access to the inner place/room. (an understanding of the cross)

I think if one thinks like Satan (re the scriptures )one can safely say that person has a corrupt, perverse mind, not the mind of Christ but the mind of Satan/death/carnality and is carnal.(you know them that are ,by their fruits)It "seems" we are born into this chaotic state (we have to experience death) or we "die to it" that is the way of the world.(chaos)

hence our "old or dead/dying" mind has to be replaced with a new one and God says he will do this.

So to answer your statement above, If one has a carnal mind...

one does think like Satan and... Satan is in control...

if the carnal mind is "dust" then yes, Satan feeds on the carnal mind



re the swimming pool... Paul got arrested many times before he received knowledge/understanding that he was in fact a "Roman" citizen (this changed things) what I meant is that "we often get done over" , before we too get understanding/revelation of our rightful place. There may be many "loopholes" in this world,
but our God is extremely clever...

[Extol]

I'm always wondering the same thing--why do we need to have an adversary if our minds are already feeling deep hatred toward God and are prone to disobey and are in fact already disobeying and far from Him?

Hi Gina,

As Ray correctly pointed out, a man does not need any help to lust after a woman. God doesn't have to force him to do it. There is no God (or devil) on the shoulder saying "Do it! DO IT! LUST AFTER THAT WOMAN." As you say, we are already disobeying, even without the adversary. We volunteer to sin.

I don't think of Satan as someone who is trying to convince me to sin or hate the things of God (don't need any help for that.) I think of him as one who tries to deceive us, the believers. When I think of Satan the deceiver, I don't think of primitive tribes in Africa who have no knowledge of God. I think of Christianity, and the Church. "Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness" (2 Cor 11:14-15). There are people in the Church who sincerely believe they are following the truth, but are being deceived. There are even some teachers of universal reconciliation who are ministers of Satan. It can be very enticing--even for some of us here--to go down certain paths.

In his study Does All Mean All? Ray says there is no Greek word that MUST mean absolutely all and everyone. So theologians can argue that "all will be saved" does not necessarily mean ALL will be saved. Ray asks "Why isn't there a Greek word that simply means ALL? Well if there were such a word, how then would Satan deceive the whole world (Rev. 12:9)?" So things like "for ever and ever" in the King James Version...that is the work of the adversary deceiving the world. We don't need his help to sin; it's when we think we are being good and following the truth that he is at his most dangerous, and so we must "be alert and of sober mind" (1 Pet. 5:8 ).

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi again Gina and Alex,

I think that Rick has settled his claim with the insurance as Gina says. Not entirely happy but not gonna let it bother him.

On the other hand, for Alex, I think we should remember that the insurance policy is a legal contract and the company has the right and even the obligation to it's stock holders, to limit the payment of claims to those that they owe according to the "contract".

If you insure your $100,000.00 home for $70,000.00 in order to save a little on the premium and a tornado takes the whole house over to the next County, all you are going to get to pay off your bank loan is the promised $70,000.00. The claims adjuster is not a charity with "tons" of extra money laying around to dole out to needy folks who didn't buy enough protection to cover their true needs. Of course you already know this, so I'm just reminding you of that fact.
We have to read the fine print in any contract we sign and be sure that we understand what we have and what we do not have.
In my own personal experience as a small claims adjuster/agent, the company was most interested in getting the legitimate claims paid quickly and the release forms signed and filed away. When I paid for a broken auto windshield I took pains to insure that the glass was properly installed so that there would be no complaints against me or the company. That is how an agent builds a successful business.

I don't know the details of the contract in question, but I do know that there are several levels of protection available at various increasing costs.

Hope my comments may be helpful. I-bob

Hi Bob,

You addressed me in your post but I'm not sure why. I don't recall mentioning any sort of contract I was involved in? I believe you were addressing this to Rick correct? I could be wrong...

Kindly,
Alex

[indianabob]

Hi Alex,
You are correct, It was Ian I was referring to and got mixed up.

Ian said at the end of one of his messages. quote

"PS
There are ways to get your compensation for your pool.. don't fear a major insurance company, take them on ... That is, if you believe you are a "citizen"
[/quote]

Since it was a long message I confused Ian with Alex.
Sincere apologies to you both.
Indiana bob

[Ian 155]

Is Satan a real literal spirit or is Satan a figurative type of figure ? According to 1Pe 5:8 and Luk 8:44 and Luk 18:8 Satan is a literal spirit.

1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Luk 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

According to statistics there are six billion people on earth today and are all six billion people being effected by one spirit being? Are there enough hours in the day for one spirit being to deceive an entire world full of people ?

Well, according to Luk 18:8 there must be however no one scripture is of its own interpretation and I was not able to find another match for Luk 18:8 at this time but I shall keep searching. 

Luk 18:8  I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
But still I’m left with this though, is Satan a real literal spirit being or is Satan a system, what I mean by a system is I’m remembering back sometime ago while mowing my lawn and hit a foreign object that had been ejected through my above ground pool wall and the pool liner and lost all the water from the hole made by this object.

After calling the insurance company I discovered I was not covered from the damage caused by my lawn mower and me however I was told if someone rammed a knife through the pool wall and liner I would of been covered meaning they will cover vandalism, a hole is a hole to me but they used it as a loophole to not pay out.

This type of business can cause one to be disingenuous rather than being honest. There is a hidden system in this world that hurt honest people. This world encourages one to be dishonest.   

I believe that Satan is the carnal influence and I firmly believe Jesus is The Spiritual influence

Hi Ian,


This statement you made brought a few scriptures to mind , one of them is

( Rom 8:20  For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope )

I don’t believe God created us with inherent evil, I believe God created us spiritually weak.

 The next scripture is ,

( Rom 7:19  For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. )

These are not the words of a man born with inherent evil but a man who wants to do the right thing but is unable because he is spiritually to weak to do all the good he would do if able.

I don’t think your saying Satan is our carnal mind but rather Satan influences our carnal minds away from God but this presents a problem for me because of this scripture,

Rom 8:7  because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

So, why does Satan need to influence our mind when by birth our mind is already in a state of  enmity against God ?

You said that Christ is the spiritual influence of our minds, so now with that scenario we are now like a receiver tuning in to both Christ and Satan but Joh 6:44 disputes that. 

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Now, the only way Christ can influence our mind would mean God the Father would have to actually draw the person to Christ but if God the Father draws not the person to Christ then we are still confronted with Rom 8:7

Rom 8:7  because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

I’m still learning so if I’m in error please forgive me, its not intentional.

God bless.

Yeah -  the "influence" is pertaining to the word (only) the truth of the word sets one free from this influence (a new understanding)...a weak mind (carnal)is able to be conned . which as you point out is/was necessary

[Ian 155]

Hi Alex,
You are correct, It was Ian I was referring to and got mixed up.

Ian said at the end of one of his messages. quote

"PS
There are ways to get your compensation for your pool.. don't fear a major insurance company, take them on ... That is, if you believe you are a "citizen"

Since it was a long message I confused Ian with Alex.
Sincere apologies to you both.
Indiana bob
[/quote]

just saying the road i travelled there are/have been many snares, He delivers ...