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[lauriellen]

Ray taught us to pay attention to ALL the words....I was studying and 'saw' something that I hadn't considered before...and I wondered if Ray ever talked about this subject?  Here is the passage:

Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18  And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19  And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

What I hadn't considered before is that this sounds like a promise, with a second witness in Joel, both stating that the spirit of God will be poured out on ALL flesh *BEFORE*  the day of the Lord comes.  It was also brought to my attention that the first Pentecost when God poured His spirit out on Jesus' followers was just a small sample of how it will be in the 'latter days'. I have never noticed the *BEFORE* until it was brought to my attention and have never heard anyone teach this would happen before the second coming.

My question is, did Ray ever address this and if so, can someone point that out to me?

Thanks, Lauriellen

[Kat]

Hi lauriellen, here is where Ray on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5815.0 ----

DISCIPLES THOUGHT JESUS WOULD COME IN THEIR LIFETIME

I Thess. 4:15  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Paul said, “we who are alive and remain.” Now you could say he’s just saying “we,” whoever the we are at that time of His coming. But no, it sounds like he’s saying, we right now here. Those of us that are alive until His coming, we won’t actually go to sleep we’ll just be changed. You know, he’ll come and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we will rise to meet the Lord in the air. 

I Cor. 15:51  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep…
 
Paul thought Christ would come before he would go to sleep(die).
 
v. 53 …but we shall all be changed,
v. 52  in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

James 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.

Like He is coming soon, just be patient and hang in there.

Joel 2:28  And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy; your old men shall dream dreams; your young men shall see visions.
v. 29  And also I will pour out My Spirit on the slaves and on the slave women in those days.
v. 30  And I will show wonders in the heavens, and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
v. 31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah.

Acts 2:15  For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
v. 16  but this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
v. 17  And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:

Peter thought, well this is the last days. Now he was right, he was inspired to write that because God did start pouring out His Spirit on Pentecost... so that was the last days. How long do the last days last? Until they are over. It’s been a pretty long time. But he didn’t finish the prophecy, he quoted Joel, but he didn’t finish all of Joel. Because it doesn’t all fit then. But the portion that he did quote, it does fit then. 

You say, ‘but didn’t it mention heavenly signs.’ He said, you know these people aren’t drunk. These people are like the people that prophesied in Joel, where it says they shall dream dreams and see visions, all of that. The sun shall not give it’s light and the moon shall turn to blood. 

Acts 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

Did that happen on Pentecost? Yes it did! How so? How did the sun not give it’s light? How did the moon instead of reflecting light, turn to blood? 

Light is symbolic of God’s Truth. Jesus Christ is the light. The brightest physical symbol of light, brightness, this is our sun. So light comes from the strongest source. God - Jesus Christ is that light. 

John the Baptist said, “that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,” (John 3:19). But He was that light. The Son gives light, that’s direct revelation from God.

Now the moon is the reflected light. That should come through the church and through the ministry. They get it from the Son. The moon (church) reflects it’s light from the Son (Christ), it doesn’t have it’s own light (Truth). If the sun went out, the moon would go out, because the moon has no light, it’s reflected light. 
So as the ministry gets light, they give it to the congregation, they feed the sheep. 

But what did He say would happen, starting on Pentecost? The sun/Son isn’t going to give it’s light anymore. God is not going to give direct light to the people anymore. The light that should be coming, that was already given to the moon, to be reflected, now it’s not going to give it’s light. It’s going to be turned to blood. What is this talking about?

Their revelation from God was going to cease. Apostasy is going to set in. The church is going to go amuck and instead of teaching the light from God and passing it on, they are going to turn to blood. How so?

Well on that very day they stoned Stephen (Acts 7). Instead of giving light to the world as a secondary light, they turned to blood. They turned murderers. 
Tomorrow we are going to go through and see how many men, who wanted to present God’s Word to everyday people like us, they had to pay with their lives. Well who would do such a dastardly thing? The moon! The secondary light of God’s Truth - the church - the Popes - the Bishops. If you even had…. you didn’t have to teach it or even read it, if you were found with a copy of Tyndale’s Bible, you were put to death. I mean it was pretty bad.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[John from Kentucky]

Sure do miss Ray and his clarity in presenting the Scriptures.

[lauriellen]

Joel 2:28  And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.....v. 31  ..... before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah.
Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.....Act 2:20 .... before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I understand what Ray was saying and his point about the signs and symbolic meanings were/are fulfilled in each generation. I guess my question is directed specifically to the portion concerning the statement by God that He would pour out His spirit on
****ALL FLESH*****BEFORE*****   the day of the Lord.  Does the ''all'' in these declarations really mean ''all''? Ray said that God 'began' to pour out His spirit on Pentecost, but will there be a time before the day of the Lord when God will literally pour out His spirit on ALL FLESH? It just seems to me to be a pretty direct statement?

[John from Kentucky]

Joel 2:28  And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.....v. 31  ..... before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah.
Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.....Act 2:20 .... before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I understand what Ray was saying and his point about the signs and symbolic meanings were/are fulfilled in each generation. I guess my question is directed specifically to the portion concerning the statement by God that He would pour out His spirit on
****ALL FLESH*****BEFORE*****   the day of the Lord.  Does the ''all'' in these declarations really mean ''all''? Ray said that God 'began' to pour out His spirit on Pentecost, but will there be a time before the day of the Lord when God will literally pour out His spirit on ALL FLESH? It just seems to me to be a pretty direct statement?

Lauriellen,

It says God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh in the last days.  That is true.  But the last days will not be over until the ages to come.

It says that the Sun will be darkened and the moon will turn to blood (all symbolically) before the Day of the Lord.

It does not say that His Spirit will be poured out before the Day of the Lord, but in the last days.

The Day of the Lord and the last days are not the same things.

Have you telescoped everything together possibly?  And that has caused some confusion?

That is why no one Scripture is its own interpretation.  One Scripture can be misunderstood.

That is why two Scriptures are needed.  For the last days and the Day of the Lord to be the same thing, we will need two Scriptures to prove that.

Take care,

John

[Ian 155]

Im not sure if I see "the Day" as a literal day,In fact I don't...I see this as a metaphor,like "at the time I visit you" your day may not be my day...

I do not believe the day of the Lord is a literal day but, be sure, it will be coming.

Gen 1:3 And saying is the Elohim, "Become light!" And it is becoming light.

[Kat]

Acts 2:16  But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:
v. 17  "And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
v. 18  And in those days I will pour out My Spirit upon My slaves and My slave women, and they shall prophesy.
v. 19  And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

Hi lauriellen, all of this that Peter is saying, from the prophet Joel, is speaking of what is to happen when Christ returns in the next age, all of Joel chapter 2 is speaking of the next age. The Apostles thought, as Ray had said, they expected it to happen soon, in their lifetime, so Peter is showing them what he thinks is about to happen.  Joel is speaking all this about the next age, but notice this is a new sentence a different thought he brings up in verse 20.

Acts 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord.

The prophet said precisely that right there he is speaking of "before that great and glorious Day of the Lord." All that he had been speaking of up until that point was about the next age, but he clearly states that this particular thought is about what happens "before" all this, and is the symbolism of the sun and moon in this age. But first he was speaking about "the last days," which is the next age, that we can see from other Scripture.

Isa 2:2  And it shall be, in the last days the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow into it.
v. 3  And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob. And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go out the Law, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem.
v. 4  And He shall judge among the nations...

Micah 4:1  But it shall be in the last days the mountain of the house of Jehovah shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it.
v. 2  And many nations shall come and say, Come and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob. And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths; for the Law shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. (this whole chapter is speaking of the next age)

In both those Scripture it shows that what Joel is speaking of is about "the last days" or the next age.
But sometimes the 'last days' that is spoken of in the NT, does mean the end of this present age, so in reading Scripture it has to be discerned which is being spoken of. Then Joel continues on about the next age in the rest of the chapter and Peter has this verse as his last quote from Joel.

Acts 2:21  And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Hope this is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lauriellen]

Thanks for all the input. Kat, those verses made it very plain that the term 'last days' can refer to the time after Jesus returns or during the thousand year reign. What threw me is that by reading the verses in the context and flow, it does appear to be saying that these things happen BEFORE the second coming of Jesus. I thought from reading other versus that use the term 'all flesh', that it does indeed mean 'ALL flesh'.....so I couldn't understand how it could be something that would happen before the return and reign of Christ that the spirit of God would be poured out on all people. It would be a wonderful thing for sure, but I had always understood that it would be something that would happen later at the end of the ages.

[Gina]

Micah 4:1  But it shall be in the last days the mountain of the house of Jehovah shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it.

v. 2  And many nations shall come and say, Come and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob.  And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths; for the Law shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem.



Not to argue but if the Micah verses are speaking about worshipping God in a mountain in the next age, what does this mean: 



7 A woman from Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.” 8(For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

11 The woman said to him, “Sir, you have nothing to draw water with, and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water?

12 Are you greater than our father Jacob? He gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock.”

13 Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again,

14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again.  The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water, so that I will not be thirsty or have to come here to draw water.”

16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”

17 The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You are right in saying, ‘I have no husband’;

18 for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true.”

19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.”

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

[/i]

[Kat]

Thanks for all the input. Kat, those verses made it very plain that the term 'last days' can refer to the time after Jesus returns or during the thousand year reign. What threw me is that by reading the verses in the context and flow, it does appear to be saying that these things happen BEFORE the second coming of Jesus. I thought from reading other versus that use the term 'all flesh', that it does indeed mean 'ALL flesh'.....so I couldn't understand how it could be something that would happen before the return and reign of Christ that the spirit of God would be poured out on all people. It would be a wonderful thing for sure, but I had always understood that it would be something that would happen later at the end of the ages.

lauriellen, Only the verse that Joel says "before" is speaking of before the next age, all the rest of that chapter is speaking about the next age.

Joel 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah.

It seems Joel just kind of stuck that in there, about what will happen in this age "before" all that he is saying about the next age. And yes where it says "I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh," that is certainly speaking about the next age when Christ rules.

Isa 40:10  Behold, the Lord Jehovah will come with a strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him.

Isa 40:4  Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low; and the crooked places shall be made level, and the rough places smooth;
v. 5  and the glory of Jehovah shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together; for the mouth of Jehovah has spoken.


Hi Gina, where in says in Micah "the mountain of the house of Jehovah shall be established in the top of the mountains," I believe that is speaking of God's government ruling over all "the mountains" of the whole world. The verse in Isaiah also says God's house/government will be on the top of the "mountains" as well.

Isa 2:2  And it shall be, in the last days the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established in the top of the mountains...

But where Jesus was speaking to the woman at the well, He says "the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth," this is speaking of only the chosen elect now in this age. The rest will later in the next age, as it says in Joel "I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh."

I think learning to notice those little details makes a big difference.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

Yes, I see what you're saying.  That does make a lot of sense.  Thanks.

[Gina]

I think this is very fascinating because it deals with what happens after the last days and after He hands over the Kingdom to the Father:

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.  The last enemy to be destroyed is death.


Enemy #1 -- Dominion definition:  supremacy, ascendancy, dominance, domination, superiority, predominance, preeminence, hegemony, authority, mastery, control, command, power, sway, rule, government, jurisdiction, sovereignty

Enemy #2 --Authority definition:  the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience

Enemy #3 --Power definition:  the capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events

Enemy #4 -- Death definition:  Self-explanatory.


So all these things are in the world right now and in Jesus Reign in the age to come (government, rule, power, authority, dominion, rule.... did I mention power and authority and government?) and will continue till the end, when it will all be destroyed!

Wow!

Once it is all destroyed there will be no more way for anyone to ever be ^over or _under anyone else or anything else ever again because God will be all in all.

Oh glory days!  Come Lord, Jesus - let's get this show on the road!

:-D

What a happy day that will be!  Who likes authority and death?  I'd be lying if I said I loved it.  But when it comes to the unlawful, sure, I'll accept it for the time being as long as it's not going to dead-end into it.

[indianabob]

Gina,
Wha' hoppen to #3 in the list above??

[Gina]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  It's fixed.

[Ian 155]

Wish these "last days" would come now ...They were, they are (a time is coming and is now here)and they will be.... where the heck are they?

Rom 13:11 This, also, do, being aware of the era, that it is already the hour for us to be roused out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believe."

later in corinthians ...

2Co 6:2 For He is saying, "In a season acceptable I reply to you, And in a day of salvation I help you.Lo! Now is a most acceptable era! Lo! Now is a day of salvation!"

Who is the son of mankind ? and when does the son of mankind, become the son of God?

Joh 12:23 Yet Jesus is answering them, saying, "Come has the hour that the Son of Mankind should be glorified."

Gal 4:6 Now, seeing that you are sons, God delegates the spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying "Abba! Father!"
Gal 4:7 So that you are no longer a slave, but a son. Now if a son, an enjoyer also of an allotment from God, through Christ.

seems we have to Luk 11:13 If you, then, being inherently wicked, are aware how to give good gifts to your children, how much rather will the Father Who is out of heaven, be giving holy spirit to those requesting Him!"

No...I cannot believe the "some future day/hour" theory, sorry

[Kat]

Ian, one of the main things that Ray expounded on in his articles is that only a 'few' are being dragged to Christ now, in this age, the 'many' will be saved in the next age.

Yes the few are given His Holy Spirit and are begotten now in this age, but the resurrection of the dead has NOT happened... do you think it has? That is the 'future' hope that we set our sights on.

Acts 24:14  But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
v. 15  I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

What we have now is a 'begottal,' just a taste, a foreshadow of what is yet to come.

1Co 2:9  But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"—

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

Mat 25:34  Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Joel]

What I see going on there in the second chapter of Acts is Peter explaining to the crowd what was actually happening that monumental day of Pentecost.
He did the explaining by referencing what the scriptures had said must happen, and verse 15 has much to say that leads up to the prophets words.
15-For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Joel

[lilitalienboi16]

Well I'm not entirely sure what Ian is going on about with the "future day/ eon" concept but the scriptures certainly speak of a comming ressurection of the dead, a day of judgment for the world, and a day when we ourselves will finally recieve our awaited change and birth into the kingdom of God. My scriptures serve to supplement what Kat has already shared.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

1 Corinthians 15:12-18
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15:50-52
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Yes we are CALLED son's of God but we have not attained all that which being called such entails.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and CALLS those things which be NOT as though they were.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Philippians 3:8-14
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, IF that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:18-23
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Let anyone who trembles at the Word of God never forget that it is the SUM of the Word that is truth and in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Let Jesus plain words make this matter clear and final:

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

If you're still alive kicking and screaming and suffering then you havn't endured unto the end yet. We are still not there! You have not yet been saved.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

We havn't over come yet, we are still fighting the good fight. Fight unto the end as Paul layed out the example and Christ before Him.

When you are finally born into the kingdom of God you will know it. You will be powerful and invisible like the wind.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Children, sons and daughters of God, with a promise of a glorious future, we are, but we have not yet attained to that which we follow after.

God bless,
Alex

[rick]

Well I'm not entirely sure what Ian is going on about with the "future day/ eon" concept but the scriptures certainly speak of a comming ressurection of the dead,

Hi Alex,

Everyone is born spiritually dead in this life so God the Father would need to quicken ones spirit in order for one to follow Christ.

Maybe Ian is seeing that as the first resurrection, which in a way it could be look at in that way.

Being spiritually dead to spiritually alive. Maybe that’s what Ian is saying.

[lilitalienboi16]

Hey Rick,

Perhaps, but if that is the case, the scriptures already speak of a first ressurection, and its the ressurection of the elect which pertains to a yet future event in which they reign with Christ and judge the world and the angels. Unless someone wants to argue that we currently are reigning with Christ and judging the world and the angels?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The second ressurection is the ressurection of the rest of the world. Ressurection of the Just [1st] and the ressurection of the Unjust [2nd]. Either way, these things are yet future.

Luke 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

God bless,
Alex