Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jeff]

Hi, My name's Jeff and I've been visiting bible-truths for many years, reading, and then re-reading, everything Ray has written.  I've been a member of the forum, years ago, but after Ray passed, it seemed futile, and I wandered away.  I knew that it's anything but futile, because where will I ever find anyone who understands me, if not here.

I've come back here because I need prayer.  That sounds very selfish to me, but in the end only you will know how to pray for me, because only you will understand how to pray. I'm here with a broken spirit, in a state of repentance, asking your forgiveness for that selfishness, in desperate need of prayer.  I know that God has forgiven me.

I'm going to try to keep this brief, so if you're willing to pray for me but have questions, please ask.

Five months ago a significant relationship ended.  I'm 56 years old and it's the only time I've ever given my heart to someone completely. When I write that it sounds silly, but I've been tormented by this situation for five months, and I'm reaching the point of breaking.

Every five minutes of every hour that I'm awake, I'm praying to God to:

A. Please fill me with your Spirit...
B. Please restore this relationship...
C. If it's not your will to do that, please release me from this torment...
D. If it's not your will to do that, please take my life.  Let me sleep until you return.

Either he's silent, or I'm not listening rightly.

This isn't just a matter of sadness over a lost relationship - we've all experienced that - I have many times.  This is something more, and it has to do with my relationship with God.  He often brings circumstances into our lives that are meant to drive us to our knees.  I understand that and am on my knees, both physically, and in my heart.  I submit to God.

I'm getting to the point where I can't function anymore.  Anxiety and depression are taking their toll and I need help.  It seems to me that God wants me in this state or He would change it.  Maybe asking for prayer is part of this?  No church would know how to pray for me.

Either I'm missing something important or this suffering is necessary.

I only ask you to pray for wisdom and understanding for me.  I'm at the point where I don't care to exist anymore and that both scares and comforts me.  In that sleep I'm free of pain, but I have to assume that it's God's purpose to show me something. I just don't seem to be able to see what that might be, or the time hasn't come yet.  Ultimately I just want it to end.  I don't know how much longer I can bear this.  This isn't normal for me.  This isn't something that normally would cause me anguish so I have to believe there's something going on, something God wants me to understand.

What am I not seeing?

Thank you so much - in advance.

Jeff

[Rene]

I'm getting to the point where I can't function anymore.  Anxiety and depression are taking their toll and I need help. 

Welcome back to the forum Jeff. 

I will pray for you, but I also would encourage you to seek help from a medical professional if you are suffering from anxiety and depression to the point that you are having problems functioning.

René

[Jeff]

Thank you Rene.

I've had so much therapy over the years, and I am seeing someone now, but nobody understands the spiritual aspect of this.  I can't go to a church and ask for guidance, they won't have any idea how to help me.  While it's true - in part - that it's a mental health issue - if you take the physical into account - in the end, it's really a spiritual matter.  It has to be.  Therapy isn't the answer, and if not God, then I'm lost.

I've been medicated for anxiety and depression since 1985.  I'm no stranger to every aspect of therapy, and could easily be a therapist, with what I've learned.  I've exhausted therapy, they say: there's nothing else we can do.

I simply need God.  I don't understand His purpose in all of this - but He's in control of every "thing".  We know that and the answer has to be with Him.

Something beyond simple human frailty is going on here.  When man's methods fail, where do I turn?

I just need a bit of wisdom, or understanding, or at the very least - peace.

[Jeff]

*Where I am right now:

He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he hath made me desolate.
And thou hast removed my soul far off from peace: I forgat prosperity.

*What I need in prayer is the spiritual strength to hold on to this:

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.
It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.
The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.
It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.

All I ask for is God's will.  Nothing else matters.

[Dave in Tenn]

Jeff, I'm no wise-man so I don't know if this is of value to you.

I can empathize to some degree as I've also been drug down with anxiety and depression.  It lifted the night I stumbled onto B-T, and it hasn't returned in anything like the measure that plagued me before. 

Look at what it is you are praying.

A. Please fill me with your Spirit...
B. Please restore this relationship...
C. If it's not your will to do that, please release me from this torment...
D. If it's not your will to do that, please take my life.  Let me sleep until you return.

What does it mean to you for God to fill you with His spirit?  You understand, I hope, that patience and long-suffering are as much the fruit of His Spirit as love, joy, and peace.

After that, you set conditions on God as to how He will deal with you.  I know that it seems you are praying according to His will, but is there also a sense that you are instructing Him as to how His will should be delivered to you?  Maybe?  It seems that way to me.  Except for your first request, everything is about this relationship--your desire to see it restored and your willingness to accept certain things if it isn't.  It could even be that your FIRST request is bound up in it.

Paul wrote this.  Like Ray said many times:  Read all the words.  Don't just skim over them like you were comfy in your pew.  I'm going to highlight a few of them, and if you want more of this, I'll do my best to deliver.

Php 4:4  Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, Rejoice!  Let your reasonableness be known to all men. The Lord is near.  Be anxious about nothing, but in everything by prayer and by petition with thanksgivings, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
 
For the rest, brothers,(could that be essentially saying "in the meantime"?) whatever is true, whatever honorable, whatever is right, whatever pure, whatever lovely, whatever of good report, if of any virtue, and if of any praise, think on these things.
Php 4:9  And what things you learned and received and heard and saw in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

There is a world of opportunity to love, and serve 'the least of these'.  Do it for them, and you've done it for Him. 

I'm glad you're back.  We all miss Ray, but there are many days I still 'fellowship' with him, even though he's gone.  I hope that over time, and in time, you will reconnect with the beautiful truths that drew you here in the first place.


 

[lurquer]

Good to meet you Jeff.

What a hard post this is to respond to. I'm surely not qualified to counsel you, and yet.. I understand.

I have to say first, I partially disagree with Rene, and agree with you--in that "medical professionals" cannot help you.  I believe you when you say, "there's nothing else they can do." Maybe in fact, there was nothing ever they could do. But that you "simply need God" is certainly true.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but, anxiety and depression are not a "medical condition".  In other words, they cannot be effectively treated with drugs. The drugs only enhance and exaggerate the condition while masking the symptoms.  Not knowing the specifics of your spiritual torments, I'd hazard a guess that you know you are not 'mentally ill', and that these are real conditions which manifest in your mind and body to the point where you'd ultimately prefer death then indefinite continuation of the suffering.  This is a totally legitimate human response.

I don't know what you're not seeing, Jeff, but I believe you are right that the suffering is necessary.  God is causing it because He loves you and it is important that you experience it. I have no other vision than that. I also have no direct line with God, not being an extremely prayerful person myself. Though I have been in the past.. in my misguided youth. Perhaps like David, when I felt a wonderful connection with God, yet all along I was "yet carnal"...David, who wrote so many beautiful psalms to God, died in his sins, "unconverted", as Ray said.

Guess what I'm saying is you're not alone, God is still--and always--in control of your life, and His wonderful plan for you will not be thwarted.  What you are experiencing is His Purpose.

I know others here will honestly pray for you, Jeff. And they will know how to pray. But you will nonetheless always be in God's hands. In life and in death.  I believe God WILL give you understanding in that if you humbly ask of it.  This, (if only this) I can attest to.

I hope you will stay with us. God's peace be upon you.

Neo--a fellow traveler.

[Extol]

Dear Jeff,

Echoing what Dave quoted from Php 4: "in every thing give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus in regard to you." (1 Th. 5:18). Of course I heard this verse many times growing up in church, but only recently did I realize what it is saying: EVERY thing. It's easy to give thanks for the good things in the happy times, but it doesn't say "For happy things give thanks"....it says "in EVERY thing...". That means I thank God for the suffering and hardships too. Why? Because "this is the will of God in Christ Jesus in regard to you." It is the will of God for all things--whether happiness or the experience of evil--to work together in my life as part of molding me into His image. Without the experience of evil and the hardships, I would not learn all that is necessary to become a son of God. So I must thank Him for those things as well. I know it sounds foolish to the carnal mind to say "Thank You for this broken relationship"--and it is not at all easy--but we just have to trust that God knows more about what's going on than we do. One day, I believe, we will look back and understand why.

[Kat]

Hi Jeff,

Being really down, even at rock bottom (think of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15), is where God brings us, so that we realize that we have no means, of ourselves, to make ourselves right and good. When we finally see and really comprehend that we are nothing at all but filthy sinners, then we are in a place where God can pick us up and begin teaching us. Just as Paul was struck down on the road to Damascus, we all have to be made aware that we are nothing... just as Paul saw himself as the worse of sinners, so do we have to realized we are no better than anybody else, even the worse sinners, accept by God's mercy on us.

So throw yourself on God's mercy, give yourself to Him completely a "living sacrifice," seek Him first and foremost in study, prayer and meditation... if you are serious about your desire to do His will, then show Him.

Mat 11:28  Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
v. 29  Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
v. 30  For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Rev 3:18  I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
v. 19  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Rom 12:1  So then, my friends, because of God's great mercy to us I appeal to you: Offer yourselves as a living sacrifice to God, dedicated to His service and pleasing to Him. This is the true worship that you should offer.
v. 2  Do not conform yourselves to the standards of this world, but let God transform you inwardly by a complete change of your mind. Then you will be able to know the will of God---what is good and is pleasing to him and is perfect. (GNB)

Rom 12:12  Let your hope keep you joyful, be patient in your troubles, and pray at all times. (GNB)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[arion]

Unfortunately my friend suffering is a necessary part of the path we are on.  Some suffer incredible physical hardships as our dear Ray had to.  Some suffer psychological hardships as you are undergoing and some suffer both.  And of course we all think that our suffering is too much and we kind of envy the suffering of others.  But God knows exactly what kind of suffering we need and now long it has to be. 

My sister as an example who is older has physical problems one after the other.  I donated a kidney to her 12 years ago and she is still plugging along...I wouldn't want her baggage.  I have psychological issues myself that go back to when I was a little kid and a young teen and I'm still dealing with them at 53 years old.  I keep on telling God that I think I've learned enough patience in it but apparently not.  And then my younger niece has been bulimic for years and has both the physical and psychological aspects.

I have little use for the therapies of this world.  Yes, there are times when there is legitimate medical issues that can be helped with medication.  But it's been my observation that they usually medicate to deal with the symptoms but there is little to nothing they can do for people with psychological and psychiatric problems because all they can do is meddle in the carnal realm and get you to contemplate your naval but that does nothing in addressing the root cause which is usually spiritual in nature.

Like it or not God has you where he wants you right now and it appears from what you've said that your still fighting the situation.  I'm reminded of the old adage that if you love something let it go.  If you grasp too hard it will slip right through your clenched fist.  If it returns then it was meant to be and if not then let God be God.  We all have to deal with different things and one of the hardest is to be content where we are at. 

You gave your heart completely to someone and it didn't work out and now a big piece of who and what you are seems to be missing.  At least you've been able to give of yourself to that extent.  I've never been able to do that even once and unless God intervenes I'll take that to the grave so in a way I envy you and others who have been able to give of yourselves even if you get hurt.  Some were hurt so badly and at such a young age that they are totally closed off and don't even know how to be vulnerable to being hurt anymore.

Perhaps I'm in error but I think there comes a time where God brings us to the point where we know that HE is the only solution to our situation and if he enables us then we will overcome and if he doesn't then we won't.  I no longer fight it.  I'm not saying that there is no fight left in me, but I'm walking beyond book knowledge to know that if he doesn't do it then it's not going to get done.  You indicate that anxiety and depression are taking their toll on you.  Perhaps your still fighting the situation instead of just giving up and let God deal with it as he would?  I'm just musing here.  Were all different and God deals with us differently.  There is one thing you can take to the bank as the saying goes.  God's will shall be done, our part is to quit fighting it and let God be God.   And if we can get to the point where we quit fighting the situation that we find ourselves in then maybe God's peace and contentment will abide with us?

[walt123]

Thank you Jeff for sharing your trials with us.

And thank you all for replying ,for all this hits home to me Jeff.
I just turn 53, there are too  songs for you Jeff that helps as they help me too.

https://youtu.be/lZgoS7rz3jI

https://youtu.be/oni0tO_HN30

Peace to you Jeff,From God our father and His son,the prince of Peace.

Walt

[John from Kentucky]

I   I   I

Me  Me  Me

Mine  Mine  Mine


At this moment, there are millions of your fellow human beings suffering war, murder, starvation, rape and sexual abuse---no home---no food--no hope.  They suffer the ravages from the Four Horsemen--Religious deception, war, hunger and disease.

To the extent you are not suffering as they, pray to God and thank God, for the many blessings you have.

Prayer is not for giving us goodies.  There is no free will.  God will not change from what He has predetermined for each of us.

As Jesus showed us.  There is one and only one prayer that is ever answered.  God's will be done.

God will provide for us.  God will save us.  There is nothing to fear.  We will have only the broad, sunlit, uplands of life, both now and in the ages to come.

[Dennis Vogel]

This may help: https://youtu.be/7UYCSC_5xnQ

[Jeff]

John from Kentucky,

Phil 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Supplication: need, indigence, want, a seeking, asking, entreaty to God (to desire, long for, to beg)
Request: petition (to ask for, beg, call for)

God's will is always done regardless, but we're instructed to ask.  I would never pray for anything but God's will, but I also believe the Scriptures.

The witness:

I Jhn 5:14-15

14 And this is the boldness that we have toward Him, that if anything we may ask according to his will, He doth hear us, 15 and if we have known that He doth hear us, whatever we may ask, we have known that we have the requests that we have requested from Him.

My only prayer for myself, today, is that God will keep me from harm, and only if that's His will.

I don't expect anyone to understand depression, but I can no more heal myself from that, than I could will a broken leg to heal.

[John from Kentucky]

Most everyone here says they understand what Ray taught, but few actually read and understand from the Scriptures Ray quoted.

Everyone has their own opinions that they cling to.

Below is something Ray wrote on prayer using multiple Scriptures.  Just as Jesus did in the Garden, the only prayer that works is Your (God's) will be done.


http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm



But Christians don't understand.  They pray for girlfriends, money, jobs, houses, health, happiness etc., etc.--gimmee, gimmee, gimmee---I,I,I, me,me,me, mine, mine,mine.  I want it, and I want it now.  And God, if I don't get stuff, I'll hold my breathe and be unhappy.

Follow Jesus.  Jesus came to serve, and not to be served.

[Jeff]

John,

Maybe I'm confused and you can set me straight.  This is the "Prayer Requests" part of the forum?

Your link to Ray's paper on "Praying" is something I read for the 4th or 5th time, most recently, 2 days before I posted my request for "prayer" in the "Prayer Requests" section of the forum. In fact, that paper is what prompted me to come here.

If you aren't engaged enough to actually write something relevant, why bother?  I'm sure you have better things to do.

Wow.

[Jeff]

Thank you Renee, Dave, Neo, Extol, Kat, Arion, Walt123, and Dennis.

I appreciate all that you wrote and will take it to heart.

[repottinger]

Dear Jeff,
Welcome back to the forum. I’m very sorry about all of these terrible trials that you’re having to endure, and will be sure to keep you in my prayers as you search for God’s will in your life.
The only thing that I can add to all of the wonderful, helpful, and inspiring comments and verses that you’ve already received is a few verses, the first group of which show (as Ray pointed out so many times) that ALL (including evil and difficult experiences such as those you’re going through) is of God, and the second of which show that EVERYTHING (including Christ’s sacrifice for all of us) was planned by God “before the foundation of the world.” I realize that, as Dennis and others on the forum (I’m sure) have pointed out, when we’re having these experiences, it’s so difficult to really internalize these verses into our hearts and minds, but hopefully reading them might help you to realize to some extent the grandeur of God’s plan for all of us and how insignificant the “sufferings of this present time” are by comparison.
Your brother in Christ,
Randy   

First set of verses:
Romans 11:36, AKJV
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
I Corinthians 8:6, AKJV
6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
I Corinthians 11:12, AKJV
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
II Corinthians 5:18, AKJV
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Ephesians 1:11, AKJV
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Hebrews 2:10-11, AKJV
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Second set of verses: 
Ephesians 1:3-4, AKJV 
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
I Peter 1:18-20, AKJV
18 forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Revelation 13:8, AKJV
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[Kat]

John,

Maybe I'm confused and you can set me straight.  This is the "Prayer Requests" part of the forum?

Your link to Ray's paper on "Praying" is something I read for the 4th or 5th time, most recently, 2 days before I posted my request for "prayer" in the "Prayer Requests" section of the forum. In fact, that paper is what prompted me to come here.

If you aren't engaged enough to actually write something relevant, why bother?  I'm sure you have better things to do.

Wow.

You're exactly right Jeff, this is what this board is for. We need the interaction with other believers, and certainly as brothers and sisters we can pray for one another, even Paul asked for prayers from other believers.

Heb 13:18  Pray for us; for we are confident that we have a good conscience, in all things desiring to live honorably.

1Th 5:25  Brethren, pray for us.

You should come to the forum and join in the discussions as much as you can, it's another way to keep tuned into the spirit and away from worldly matters. I think it can become a good habit to focus your thinking on spiritual things and just don't let, or quickly remove other things that interrupt and try to drag our thoughts back into the world.

Php 4:6  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
v. 7  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
v. 8  Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Jeff]

Thanks Kat and repottinger,

I find so much encouragement in the verses you've shared.  I think that maybe (as Dave pointed out) in some sense, out of desperation, I'm trying to control what God may want to give to me (good luck with that, right?)  It wasn't my intent, but every day, I find that the more I understand, the more I realize how little I really do understand.

It's true, as John pointed out, that in asking for restoration of a relationship with someone whom I dearly loved, I'm probably being self-absorbed.  It limits the possibilities and that's just foolish.

God, through Ray's work, catapulted me into a place I could never have imagined (I miss him so much).  The time he spent praying for understanding, benefits everyone of us, in a way that only God is able to accomplish.

I appreciate the compassion from you, I know that my life is a vapor, and God loves that person that I'll someday become, through, and out of Him. 

I only want God's will and will focus on that.  I do mean that.

Your brother in Christ,
Jeff

[Joel]

I do understand where you are coming from Jeff.
I pray God will restore, and strengthen you during this trial.

Joel