> General Discussions
Scriptures or not scripture is the question?
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: Rick on September 09, 2015, 04:06:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on September 09, 2015, 09:21:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on September 08, 2015, 04:57:39 PM ---Hi Alex,
There are some things I would like to say to help me with my understanding however the conversation would turn political which as you know is not going to happen on this forum.
I feel my hands are tied behind my back on this forum with this topic so I found another forum where I can explore the things of God and my understanding of scripture without condemnation.
Thanks anyways Alex.
God bless.
--- End quote ---
Again Rick - Why did you not simply PM Alex? Why do you feel the need to complain publicly? It reminds me of my three year old granddaughter when she doesn't get her own your way.
No one is condemning you. You agreed to follow the rules when you joined this forum. You need to keep your word.
--- End quote ---
Hi Dennis,
Why do you feel as thought I知 complaining ? I made a factual statement to Alex and in so doing have I not kept my word ?
God bless.
--- End quote ---
Because you said "without condemnation." And you should have simply PMed Alex where you can say anything you want and not complain publicly.
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: Rick on September 09, 2015, 03:58:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on September 08, 2015, 06:05:10 PM ---
. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves.
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,
Like many others in America I知 seeing and hearing things on the news that cannot be of God, I知 sure you heard recently about the women arrested and jailed for not granting a marriage license to a gay couple.
Does God command us to obey and adhere to this garbage ?
God bless.
--- End quote ---
The marriage license thing has political overtones and is not a suitable topic. Some people disagree and feelings will most likely get hurt.
lilitalienboi16:
Hi Rick,
I'm sharing the same mindset as Kat.
I see no reason to get entangled with the politics of this country.
Last I checked, our citenzship was in the heavens--A city whose foundations were not layed by the hands of men. We are strangers and pilgrims on the earth, a peculiar people, a holy nation. What fellowship then do we have with darkness?
Come out of her my people! That isn't an invitation to join her.
God is working all things after the law of His own will, trust in Him and you will have no reason to fear or fret those in positions of political power.
Psalm 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
God will keep those that are His.
God bless,
Alex
rick:
Hi Alex,
After reading these responses and thinking about what痴 being said by knowledgeable people in scripture I must concede , after all, what politician is free from causality ?
God does rule in the affairs of man and his kingdom and the powers that be are not free from cause and effect no more than we.
Kat痴 statement ( I have no objection to how He sees fits for this age to operate. ) brings it home for me.
What is must be by His decreed according to His counsel, so now I see more than I did yesterday.
God bless. :)
indianabob:
Dear friend Rick,
I realize that my comments are late in coming. I had planned to share them after the first day of reading your letter, but at my age there is plenty of time...so I hope you will consider "better late than never" as an appropriate and forgivable saying. ;)
When we were raising our four kids we had to explain many difficult things to them about why the "rulers" of the society had to be obeyed even if they were difficult to understand.
One example was why the 20 MPH school speed limit on a broad four lane road when there were no other cars present or when school was not in session.
Lots of other people were driving 30 to 35 on those days and no one got hurt. That was just one so called "stupid law" that we had to obey or pay the consequences. Another was paying taxes for something we didn't use or attending school at the appointed time while it was still dark or obeying the school teacher when she wasn't being fair (?) and so forth.
God sets in place or one could say "allows" circumstances to set in place over us certain other humans who are "somewhat" qualified to lead us and as long as they do not command us to disobey God's superior commands, then we should do our best to cooperate with their general rules.
Why? Well in any large group with everyone doing what seems right in their own mind, confusion reigns, tempers can flare and unforgiving words can be spoken in the heat of the moment leading to strife and even murder.
-
So then every group needs leaders: in the family it is Dad and Mother and later the older children. In small communities it is "selectmen" or "town board members" or councilmen and councilwomen. These folks are chosen by acclamation of the adult citizens and after public discussion they write laws and publish them for all to see and observe faithfully.
They also add in these "laws or ordinances" penalties for disobedience. Otherwise many would not obey and confusion would lead to many more being harmed.
It is always the case that one person's freedom places restrictions on the majority.
For example when one is required to "love their enemies". ::)
So then God wants us to obey the imperfect leaders set in authority over us whether we agree or not; as long as it does not lead us to rebel against God.
Of course, many leaders who read the scriptures can take advantage of this instruction from God, but that doesn't make the instruction false or one that has been added by the secular authority. The Fifth commandment requires us to honor our imperfect parents and so we should do as much as it lies within us to endure the struggle that may bring.
I suppose that my final point would be that it is better to have imperfect rulers than it would be to have anarchy and confusion and the civil wars that would result. Consider how much better life has been for families in the recent centuries of imperfect church rule. Obeying the works of the law doesn't gain us salvation, but it does afford a degree of peaceful co-existence.
Offered in love, Indiana Bob
--- Quote from: Rick on September 05, 2015, 06:16:59 PM ---I知 having an issue with these scriptures, Has Ray done anything in writing concerning these scriptures ?
What I知 wondering is if these scriptures are actually in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts.
I cannot help to think these scriptures sound more secular than God inspired to me.
I know Ray already pointed out some fallacies in the King James version although more about the meaning of hell verses Hades.
I知 assuming these fallacies came about in the middle ages or dark ages and what I知 wondering is if perhaps a particular king made sure these scriptures became part of the word of God thus adding to the word of God.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the powers that be are ordained of God.
I understand God is absolutely the higher power but where is says ( the powers that be ) are ordained of God. My thoughts here would be is there a secular authority inserting ( the powers that be ) in this scripture ?
Rom 13:2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ordinance of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment.
In Rom 13: 2 I discover if I resist the secular rulers I shall receive judgment, could this judgement be hells fire that was added to the word of God to keep we the peasants in line ?
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief: for this were unprofitable for you.
Is Heb 13:17 trying to get me to believe that our politicians are watching over my soul ? And if I resist its unprofitable to me? Gods will is to save all so I guess this scripture must be talking about prison or being executed for not obeying the secular rulers.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same:
Rom 13 : 3 is a pure secular statement to me as I read it.
So, I知 wondering if these scriptures are being added to the word of God ?
--- End quote ---
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