> General Discussions

Patriotism, nationalism, and statism as forms of idolatry

(1/11) > >>

repottinger:
Hello all,
One of my many criticisms of orthodox Christianity is its tendency to make idols of institutions like patriotism, nationalism, and statism (which can all be included under the term “civil religion,” I guess). As shown by the following verses:

John 18:36, AKJV
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

II Corinthians 5:20, AKJV
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

II Corinthians 6:14-18, AKJV
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,18 and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Ephesians 2:19, AKJV 
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 6:12, AKJV
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 

Philippians 3:18-20, AKJV
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation (often translated as "citizenship") is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

II Timothy 2:4, AKJV
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Hebrews 11:13-16, AKJV
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded ofthem, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

James 4:4, AKJV
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

I John 2:15-17, AKJV
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

To me (and most of us here, I would think), these verses show that our minds are not to be on worldly matters such as politics and patriotism, and that, by conforming to the larger culture and putting their faith and efforts into things like the nation-state, ethnic or racial group, and government (as we are all indoctrinated to do from childhood by our Babylonian society), mainstream Christians are committing a type of idolatry.
I know that Ray addressed this subject in general numerous times, but I would appreciate it if anyone could tell me if he ever specifically mentioned the idolatry aspect of it; I would also welcome any comments or thoughts that anyone might have.
Your brother in Christ,
Randy

indianabob:
Hi Randy and folks,

When I was very young, during WW2 I was aware of the minister requesting prayers for our soldiers to overcome, destroy, annihilate the Japanese and Nazi German hordes that attacked our nation. I was aware that Martin Luther the namesake of local Lutheran folks we knew was a German and that many immigrants to America were Germans, like my ancestors. In fact I had been called a Nazi by school children just to tease me.
I had many questions in my young head and no real answers.

So then, how did we all or each pray to the same God to answer prayers for German Lutheran families and for American, Canadian, British Lutheran families. Especially when I had learned that 14 year old boys were being conscripted by Adolph Hitler to fight for Germany. Would God take sides? The German boys didn't start the war. And toward the end history tells us that the allies used Carpet bombing around munitions factories knowing that "innocent civilians" were being annihilated along with factory workers.

It is a sad situation and it all fits into God's plan, but can we believers at least remain neutral?
Indiana Bob

Dave in Tenn:
To add on to Bob's comment:

Given the alternative available to the carnal mind, I'm glad for the allied victory in that war.  But what Bob started to understand at 14, it took me twice as long to understand, and twice that to refine--that 1.  All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. and 2.  NOBODY has a will free from cause and ultimately free from God.

In this world, there are only alternatives.  Alternatives which are more or less or about-the-same good; and more or less or about-the-same evil than the 'thing' they wish to supplant or replace or compete with.  With every 'good' comes or has come an evil.  And with every evil, comes or has come a good.  You can't have one without the other until we eat of the tree of LIFE.  100% happiness for all is not going to flow from any earthly paradigm. 

So.  What is the 'alternative' to the nation-state?  If it's defined, what is more good or less evil about it than the nation-state? 

If it can be defined, and if it can be determined that it is a worthy replacement, what then?  MAYBE this is one reason WE are called not to be entangled.  Because once entangled in an ideology or platform, or party, or movement, we can then simply shift our "allegiance" or "patriotism" to the new paradigm.  Don't tell me it can't be done...I've done it.  MAYBE we are always to speak truth to power.  God help us if we don't KNOW the truth.  Maybe we are ALWAYS supposed to look after the orphans and widows of all sides.

Bob said can't we be 'neutral'.  I think I understand what he means in the context of this discussion.  I think of it more as can't we be 'above'.  But let us not think too highly of ourselves.  We're not really THAT kind of 'above'.  You want to be THAT kind of 'above' you better be the servant of all.

 

   

repottinger:
Yes, Bob, I’ve also thought about the insanity of both sides in a war praying to the same God for victory, but, as you noted, Dave, there is no room for hubris in this situation, because most of us used to be in exactly the same place as the rest of Christianity. 
Randy

lilitalienboi16:
Amen Dave.

Philippians 3:17-21

17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20 For our citizenship is in the heavens; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Ephesians 2:5-7

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 12:22-24

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in the heavens, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Just some scriptures that I felt contribute to this discussion.

God bless,
Alex
 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page