Read Ray's Papers and Then Read Them Again and Again...An Apology

[Jeff]

I'm realizing, after re-reading some of my posts in this forum, that I seem to have trouble remembering.  I've read everything Ray has written, listened to every audio, and yet I still ask questions.  Questions that are answered in Ray's papers.

I need to apologize for my questions because I'm asking others to find the answer for me and that's flawed.

Ray wrote so much, was seriously prolific, and I've found (as most of you here already know) that by the time I've re-read everything written, checked the Scriptures, prayed, and contemplated, that I have to go back to the beginning and start over again.

I suppose this is really an apology to Kat, Dave, John, and really everyone here, for expecting you to answer questions to which I once knew the answer, and have forgotten.

Please forgive me.

Jeff

[Kat]

Jeff, there is really no need to apologize as far as I'm concerned. This forum is for the purpose of discussing Ray's material and none of us can remember everything we read, probably a lot less than half. As you said Ray has a lot of material and even with his ability to explain things really well, some things are just really difficult to comprehend. So thanks to people like yourself that come here and ask questions, we can further discuss these things... and I believe the more we discuss these things, think on and read these things, the more firmly they are committed to our memory.

It is good that there are people, especially like yourself that is well read in the material on BT and are willing to undergo the process of posting and then sometimes tedious dealings with the responses... because for those who read the postings of this forum for awhile, they can see threads do not always go smoothly. So actually I would like to thank you for coming here and participating in the discussion and starting your own threads with questions, not any people do... but there are many reading here that are being helped by the discussions.

You know I find that a lot of times threads can move in an unanticipated direction to answer questions that are not even about the original posting. It's all a working of the Spirit to direct and bring about what is needed for the edification of the believers, so it's all good... even the humbling experiences when we state something wrong and get called on it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Terry]

I know what you are saying Jeff, i too have read about everything on this site, i'm in awl at how some can give chapter and verse on about anything that comes up,and me, i can hardly remember what i had for breakfast this morning, but when i'm splitting wood or anything when i'm by my self away from the TV or what ever thats when Jesus and i have our time together thats when scriptures come to me not chapter and verse but just his word, its just a beautiful time.i'm not a teacher thats not my job and i'm good with that, i'm good with what he gives me and its always on time, as i write this my eyes are full with tears for the Love i feel he has for me and how i love him the best i know how,we are all where he wants us to be right now thats good enough for me.i can see your desire to serve him and that brings joy to me and helps me while i'm on my journey, i love you Brother keep up the good fight.
Terry

[Colin]

Jeff, I can identify with your thoughts and am pleased that you took the trouble to post them.   I'm sure you echo many others and Kat's reply was very reassuring, in that we are all in the same struggle.


I have been taking yet another look at Ray's LOF part 11 (The Depth of Satan and the Church of God) and - as has happened with some of us - I am seeing things almost afresh, as it were.

Ray begins with a quote from 1 Cor. 2:10 and I paid particular attention to how mention is made of the spirit of God, by which understanding is revealed to us.   The KJV also says that the spirit of God searches everything and (in verse 12) it is by means of the same spirit of God that knowledge is graciously imparted to us; 
1Cor 2:12KJV  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; [in order] that we might know the things that are freely [Greek charizomai = give as an act of grace] given to us of God.

I paused to consider what was indicated by the spirit "searching everything" and checked the Greek.  The word is ereunao and means to seek, investigate....one commentary suggests it can convey the sense of a lion or hound tracking by the scent.     

1 Cor 2:9 CLV But, according as it is written, That which the eye did not perceive, and the ear did not hear, and to which the heart of man did not ascend - whatever God makes ready for those who are loving Him." 10 Yet to us God reveals them through His spirit, for the spirit is searching all, even the depths of God."
11 For is any of humanity acquainted with that which is human except the spirit of humanity which is in it? Thus also, that which is of God no one knows, except the spirit of God." 12 Now we obtained, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we may be perceiving that which is being graciously given to us by God,

I began to see more clearly what Paul was saying....in addition to the spirit of the world, (with which we were all born) and which despite all of man's wisdom, cannot grasp "the spiritual things of God"....we have been given the spirit of God allowing us to be taught the hidden things (see verse 7).     
 
Luke 10:21KJV  In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

1 Cor 2:13 CLV which we are speaking also, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words."

As we discovered, during our school days, learning is a process, requiring time to absorb the lessons.  Some learn faster than others.    Ray used to ask (facetiously, maybe) whether he was "going too fast"?  For some, no doubt he was.    I am discovering that I hadn't been picking things up as quickly as I thought I had been.  That might be attributed to several causes....God's wisdom as to the rate He knows best to reveal, my own lack of zeal in applying myself to study and prayer, the need to go through more of life's experiences and trials e.g.   
   
I am encouraged by Philip 1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:   

When I've looked back and realized how I had misunderstood so much, (just like the rest of Christendom) - it has certainly not been through my own "cleverness" to be able to understand what I do now, and I am grateful for God's love and graciousness in teaching me (through such a man as Ray).     It all stems from God.
1John 4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.   
And now we can share and learn from each other via the forum.
We ought not to be taking things for granted like the 10 lepers who were miraculously healed, yet only one (Samaritan) returned to say "thank you".  (Luke 17:17)

On reflecting about the spirit of God interacting with our spirit, I recall where Jesus told His disciples that the spirit of God would directly inspire them what to speak in a situation where they were under duress.
Luke 12:11  And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12  For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Seeing that that was promised then, is anything different today?  And would it have to apply only under stressful conditions?      Not if I am reading Romans 8 correctly.....this seems to be applicable to what we strive to express in prayer, so as to be in harmony with what must be, according to God's will.

Romans 8:26CLV Now, similarly, the spirit [of God] also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with what must be, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings." 27 Now He Who is searching  [ereunao] the hearts is aware what is the disposition [inclination, purpose] of the spirit, for in accord with God is it pleading for the saints."

While (like now) I am preparing something to post, I often learn as I type what to be asking or saying.   Thoughts come to mind which initially I did not have....although I jot down a few ideas from which to build.  So, where does this coaching come from?   Nobody is literally tapping me on the shoulder and suggesting anything audibly. 
It is the same "means of communication", when I re-read one of Ray's articles or do some Bible study, and a phrase suddenly takes on a new, expanded meaning. 

  Spirit is, as Ray said, more real than the physical world.  We just don't fully comprehend that at this stage in our journey, but the day will come when we will see things much more clearly.    The "hidden" things (1 Cor 2:7) will be unveiled for all, according to God's timetable.   

At present our world is stumbling around in the dark; truth is hidden from them. 

Jesus' prayer was that this be changed and that the whole world will eventually know and believe.  And the words Jesus spoke, He said, were His Father's.    We see them repeated.....  what a climax to look forward to.
John 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
:22  And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
:23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

[judy]

jeff, I hear you and you are not alone in this subject.  Sometimes it is easier to recall when people talk about a subject. It gets embedded more in me because I can feel the love. "My sheep hear my voice" and a lot of times it is another sheep that answers. We are not called the 'body of Christ' because we are loners. We are to uphold and bring to mind what the Lord has said for our brothers and sisters in Christ.