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[MG]

These scriptures and others like them brought me to the "falling away" that Ray talks about, but I can't get past them to say that I am in Christ without being a liar. I don't walk as Jesus did. I sin in thought, word or deed every day. I can't tame my tongue. I can't take every thought into captivity. I know that on my own I can do nothing. God has done a lot of work in me, but I still fall short. My sinful nature is always present. I've often thought that I must not have Christ in me either because all I can see is my sinful nature. O wretched man that I am! There is no good thing in me. I can't get out of Romans 7.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1John 2:3-6
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

[Laren]

Hi MG, i too struggle with the same things.  I so badly want to be more holy, and righteous, want to love unconditionally.  So sick of my sins. 

But something i am starting to realize is that my flesh will never be converted.  It has to be destroyed.  It is the righteousness of Christ that saves us, not my righteousness or my faith.  If our heart's desire is to not sin, and we despise it, that is the spirit of Christ in us.  I thank God that he has opened my eyes to the ugliness of me and my sin, and am not blinded to it, trying to be righteous by self effort.   


1Jo 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
.
1Jo 1:10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


To me there is a big difference in having "faith in Christ" versus "faith of Christ".   It's all him.  In my opinion, the thorn in our side until the day we die will be our flesh, to keep us humble. 

[jennie]

It is a hard thing to want so badly to live our lives in a Christ-like manner but fall so short. We are so painfully human and I believe we will all sin all our lives in spite of the best of intentions. The greatest thing is that the love and forgiveness of God never falls short. he always loves us just as we love our own children even when they don't behave! The love of Christ for us is more than our little minds can wrap around. The main thing is that we try . Sometimes we do better and sometimes we fall flat on our faces. That is when He picks us right up. I know this sounds simple minded but I am pretty simple minded myself! Jennie

[MG]

Thank you

The scriptures in 1 John and other scriputures seem to condradict each other and that confuses me. I know I am being led by the Spirit, but I don't know what it means to live and walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5
 1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.



16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

[ned]

I know I am being led by the Spirit, but I don't know what it means to live and walk in the Spirit.

I feel the same way, last year I so wanted to know what it mean to be "spiritual". I pondered on it for weeks, because I so had the desire to know God in my heart...of course, He put that desire there, and I think what I concluded was:  to be spiritual meant to DO GOD'S WILL. I'm sure there is much more to it than that, but that conclusion gave me something to consciously go on...

1Pet2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men.
1Thes4:3-4 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour..vs. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Eph5:17 Wherefore, be ye not unwise, understand what the will of the Lord is.
1Joh2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I pray often that I would be worthy of my calling, and each time when I have done the Lord's will, I feel "spiritual".  For all the times I live for my flesh and do my own will....I (hopefully) right away know it, God convicts my heart, and all I can do is pray the next time I will submit to Him and do His will instead.

Peace to you all.
Marie

[lauraathome2005]

Rom 4:16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18  Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19  And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20  He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21  And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22  And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Blessings and love, laura

[Harryfeat]

I know I am being led by the Spirit, but I don't know what it means to live and walk in the Spirit.

I feel the same way, last year I so wanted to know what it mean to be "spiritual". I pondered on it for weeks, because I so had the desire to know God in my heart...of course, He put that desire there, and I think what I concluded was:  to be spiritual meant to DO GOD'S WILL. I'm sure there is much more to it than that, but that conclusion gave me something to consciously go on...

1Pet2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men.
1Thes4:3-4 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour..vs. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Eph5:17 Wherefore, be ye not unwise, understand what the will of the Lord is.
1Joh2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I pray often that I would be worthy of my calling, and each time when I have done the Lord's will, I feel "spiritual".  For all the times I live for my flesh and do my own will....I (hopefully) right away know it, God convicts my heart, and all I can do is pray the next time I will submit to Him and do His will instead.

Peace to you all.
Marie

Hello Marie,

I found your choice of scripture interesting, especially 1Thes.  The question 1Thes and other similar scripture raises in my mind is, if God wills anything, how can it not be so.  If He wills us not to lie, steal, fornicate, etc.  how is it possible that we can do anything else?

I have been studying the true nature of and definition of sin and its relation to God's will, and our will.  I have currently reached an impasse.  This impasse centers itself in the question of how the carnal mind can know and understand the spiritual. We can only pray that we are fully accepting God's will.  We have no control over doing God's will since our having control would be somewhat of a contradiction.


We have been given imperfect vessels one and all.  Not one of us is without sin.  Not one of us is capable of understanding anything except with our "carnal" minds.  Is it possible to understand the devine spirit with our inadequate, human minds?. Those with "ears to hear" and "eyes to see" are doing so through the opague window of their carnal minds and human form.  What spirit even has eye and ears?

Your conclusion that to be spiritual is to do God's will is similar to where I have come to accepting this conundrum.  The Lord's prayer sort of sums it all up in a nutshell.  We can do no more than and only what God wills and pray that our acceptance of same is complete.

feat

[chumkin]

HF.

your post reminded me of this:

1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.



and in "context"/ subject matter;  i love this:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


 1Cr 2:10  But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


 1Cr 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


 1Cr 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


 1Cr 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


 1Cr 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


 1Cr 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


 1Cr 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ



 God bless
 chuckt

[ned]

Hi feat,

Your conclusion that to be spiritual is to do God's will is similar to where I have come to accepting this conundrum. The Lord's prayer sort of sums it all up in a nutshell. We can do no more than and only what God wills and pray that our acceptance of same is complete.  feat 

Thanks for sharing. I agree, we can do NO MORE than and only what God wills, of course, He is supreme and sovereign above all. We are on a journey in the flesh, and God which has begun a good work in us will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Phil 1:6). 

I ponder my journey right now:
Jesus in me is transforming my mind so I am not conformed to this world (Rom12:2), I certainly used to walk according to the course of this world(Eph2:2).

1.  I used to drink to the point of getting drunk (not an alcoholic, but a casual drinker who liked getting drunk from time to time). I have NO DESIRE to ever get drunk again (I can't speak for tomorrow), but I haven't been drunk for over a year.
2.  Bad language was within my environment growing up, so I used to curse. While I don't curse as much as I used to, I certainly still do cuss a "bad word" from time to time, and when I do, I immediately feel BAD and ask God to forgive me.  I know it's wrong...but I am still flesh, and yes I still sin....I have the hope, however that as promised, Jesus will finish His good work IN ME....and I will never swear again...in this life time?  hopefully

So, I would say it is God's will that I don't get drunk (Eph5:18) or swear(Rom12:14), while my flesh seems to have overcome one, I am still being "worked on" for the other.  Does that mean I should keep trying NOT to swear?  Do I just sit back and wait until I stop? 

These of course are just mere minor examples of being transformed and walking in the spirit as opposed to the flesh. Can you share your thoughts, or experiences on this, Feat?  I would like to get it right and value your input.

Many thanks & may our good Lord reveal His truth regarding this, to us both.
Love,
Marie

[Harryfeat]

Hello Marie,

I don't believe that using foul language is a sin unless is is meant to hurt someone.  In my opinion it is merely rude and impolite .  It also sounds like you are on your way to tapering off your dirinking so it sounds like you must be on the right path.  Since you have basically solved your problems you must be nearly perfect already. 

I wish I could be a little more helpful than saying that I don't think anyone can tell you how to get it perfectly right.    As I said above I am at an impasse and have lots and lots of questions.  In keeping with forum rules I go elsewhere for most of my questions.

One of my own dilemmas is the degree of limits or constraints we have or the parameters we have in our choices.  How wide are the parameters of our choices in our physical existence? 

I dare not go on as I don't wish to unwittingly step in it big time.


Warmest regards
feat

[MG]

Matthew 15:18-20

18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

I think sin and my old nature go way beyond what I try to do or what I try to change about myself. Even if I perform better that doesn't make me better. If I break the least of the commandments I am guilty of breaking all of them. I am guilty and there is no changing that if I live by the law. I don't think trying to live better is the answer. We enter in by faith.

Romans 2:28-29

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Only God is good. I am not good. I just don't know how I can say I'm in Christ without being a liar according to those scriptures in 1 John. I think I read in one of Ray's emails that God sees us through his son, but why would those scriptures in 1 John be written to Christians? There seems to be a lot of scriptures that talk all about faith and no free-will and then there are many scriptures telling us what we have to do. I don't know the answer.

[ned]

All is in God's timing, that to me is the parameter of our choices.
Only He knows when I will overcome sin, each sin I overcome is removing a layer of my flesh, because I conform to His will, not mine.

For all the verses that tell us HOW (set your affection on things above) to act and WHAT (put off anger, wrath, malice, etc..) to do: could it be for our MINDS?  we can THINK on these things, we will then have the mind of Christ. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. When we constantly are thinking on these heavenly things, and not earthly, we in turn start to ACT them out(?), thus not doing OUR will, but our Lord's.

Peace,
Marie

[Laren]

Only He knows when I will overcome sin, each sin I overcome is removing a layer of my flesh, because I conform to His will, not mine.


Peace,
Marie

For me, I don't believe we, as flesh beings can ever overcome sin.  Flesh/carnality can not be converted.  The carnal mind is death.  It has to die. 

Only one has overcome the world, and it is Him.  Him in you, by faith.  Christ in you, your hope of glory.

1Jo 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faithu].

1Jo 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1Jo 2:17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

Phi 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Phi 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[orion77]

(Rom 7:22)  For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;

(Rom 7:23)  but I see another law in my members having warred against the law of my mind, and taking me captive by the law of sin being in my members.

(Rom 7:24)  O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(Rom 7:25)  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then I myself with the mind truly serve the Law of God, and with the flesh the law of sin.


(Rom 8:1)  There is therefore now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to flesh, but according to Spirit.

(Rom 8:2)  For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death.

(Rom 8:3)  For the Law being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,

(Rom 8:4)  so that the righteous demand of the Law might be fulfilled in us, those not walking according to flesh, but according to Spirit.


I don't know of anyone who can honestly say they live a sinless life.  We are free to confess our sins, and He will forgive us.  Law of sin, and Law of faith, that law of sin seems akin to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the Law of faith seems akin to the Tree of Life. 

He came not to abolish the law, but to fullfill the law.  To get past the law of sin and to move onto the law of faith is easier said than done.  The church world is so totally enveloped with the law of death with their condemnations, thank God He sent His Son not to condemn, but to save, to usher in a higher Spiritual Law, the new covenant.

All of the condemnations of the first law were fullfilled in Jesus, and in us when we follow Him and crucify the flesh.  We are no longer under its power, but through faith we LIVE. 

I've never been able to understand how one sinner can condemn another sinner, and now most here on this forum are out of that mess, and do not condemn others, yet we condemn ourselves.  I guess it is better to judge ourselves than others.

A very tough subject, for sure.

God bless,

Gary

[ned]

Thank you for clarifying and exhorting Joe, Gary, feat and all the other members who posted.

Clearly God has a lot left to do with me; a messy lump of clay.
Nonetheless, this morning I thanked Him yet again for this forum and bringing me to the truth through the members.  Even though I may be only the toenail of the members, I purpose to hang on.


Rom7:16-18 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perfect that which is good I find not.

I get it!  Sin is in me, and will be while I am in the flesh, but my faith in Jesus (which is a gift from God - Praise Him!) is what gives me no condemnation.

Thanks.
Marie

[rocky]

Rom7:16-18 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perfect that which is good I find not.

I get it!  Sin is in me, and will be while I am in the flesh, but my faith in Jesus (which is a gift from God - Praise Him!) is what gives me no condemnation.

Thanks.
Marie

Hi Marie, when I first understood the above verse, it gave me a glimpse of the freedom in Christ we are to experience.  Now I understand the apparent contradiction in I John. 

1Jo 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (Christ in us can not sin, it is our inner self, our hope of glory)
 
1Jo 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (in our flesh, dwelleth no good thing, and because of the light in our hearts, we see our sin in our flesh, hate it, and don't want to do it.  Our only hope is Christ in us).  We dont' overcome our flesh, we can't.  But the seed in us, by faith does. 

(Gal 5:5)  For we through the Spirit (Christ in us) wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

 

[MG]

Mark 10
26And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Revelation 1
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Isaiah 64
4For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
5Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
7And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
8But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
9Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people.