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God's Voice

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Colin:


Well John, I note your rapid and barbed reply.    That really is a fine article of Ray’s, which you chose to post and   I have read it several times.   

I wondered why it was that you selected it to form your response.  Several ideas came to mind:   that you considered that what had been proposed – to exercise and show love towards others, rather than cause any discomfort or offence - was somehow “contrived” and a false kind of affection; that is the subject matter of Ray’s article.   You appear to be insinuating that such an approach is one which you feel is not befitting for the forum.   

Again, with no accompanying comment from you, it is hard to draw a definite conclusion.

Then again, I wondered if you were upset by the idea suggested - of treating each other respectfully, as we share ideas, may not align perfectly with yours.    Not knowing your personal background, all I can go on is the impression which you create, namely of a man soon given to being irritated.   

What other possibilities might there be, I asked myself.    Perhaps it is one of you being “well versed” in many (all?) of Ray’s writings and you felt that somewhere in this article there was something that needed to be said in relation to this thread.     You did not elaborate.

I read Ray’s article yet again and I found an interesting number of thoughts towards the end of it….such as :-
What must we learn from all this? Whenever we pretend to be Christ-like, but it’s all a charade, we too are guilty of giving Christ a Judas kiss of death. What a disgusting display of the carnal mind and flesh, Judas has left us. Some have vengeance in their heart, others vanity, others bitterness and hatred, and yet others uncontrollable sins of the flesh, but they try to camouflage their evils with a plethora of hugs and kisses to all.

The idea of camouflage is an interesting one.   Particularly if it involves, as Ray listed, feelings of vengeance, vanity, bitterness, hatred.   These are all opposites of genuine love….agreed?   
 
Then I reread your response and thought, how much could I discern in what you contributed this time?   What percentage seemed to be composed of love - as against, say, vengeance, vanity, bitterness?  What score would you give yourself?   Tell us your motives….I shall not attempt to do so on your behalf…..

If I am “reading you wrongly”, then I apologise  - but we are told we should discern correctly.

Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Could you provide me with some clarification, so I may understand your response better?    Thank you  Colin

arion:
Where is there any place for harshness?   The more experienced members should be better able to set a righteous and humble example.  


I think you hit the nail on the head here.  And I think that perhaps we need to be reminded of something that Paul said as well:

1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

If we understand any of the deeper truths that God has revealed to us through Ray's teaching, in the end it's still God who has enlightened us.  We can take no credit for any of the understanding that we have.  I think we need to keep in mind that all sorts of people are on this forum and read the forum as guests.  Those that are more learned and understand some of the deeper truths need to be cognizant that their are people here still coming to grasp with things that others now take for granted.  We all struggle with different things and truly we are all in this journey of faith together.  We shouldn't be a hinderance to others but a help.

Certainly at times Christ used sarcasm to the religious potentates of his day and Ray also used sarcasm towards those who were intentionally obtuse and who were steeped in hypocrisy.  But the vast majority of the people that come to this forum certainly need to be treated with respect and understanding.  If you understand something that I don't then it's God who gave you the understanding that he has not yet given me.  In time God may give me the same understanding as well.  There is no room for haughtiness or superiority one over the other imo.

repottinger:
Thanks for your comments on the risks of hurting or offending others here, Jeff,  Colin, and Arion. As I’ve mentioned one time before, in the short time that I’ve been communicating on the forum, I’ve also been struck by the harsh tone of some of the comments, and find it hard to understand why we would want to use such language with brothers and sisters in Christ (as opposed to what we might do in ancient times with the Pharisees or now with the modern-day apologists for the churches of Babylon). I don’t know about anyone else here, but I don’t know any of the other members of the forum personally, and so don’t know much about their relative strength or weakness in the faith; thus, I would want to be very careful about not offending them or weakening their faith:

Romans 14 (AKJV)

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

I Corinthians 8 (AKJV)

8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him. 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

As I’ve also written a few times before in private messages to a couple of other members, people here sometimes seem to take offense at the comments of other members, and the others seem to genuinely not know why they felt that way. In my opinion (and it’s only an opinion, because I don’t pretend to know what they’re thinking, nor have I asked them), I think it can be mainly due to what they perceive as the tone of the comments, rather than what is actually written. Part of the problem, maybe, is the mode of communication on internet forums—using the written as opposed to the spoken word. I’m sure that each has its advantages and disadvantages, but one problem with writing, I think, is that it can be misinterpreted so easily because the participants aren’t able to see each others’ expressions and gestures or hear their tone of voice. Thus, what may have been intended as a humorous comment can be taken totally seriously, or something offered in a warm spirit of trying to be helpful can be seen as blunt, uncaring, cold, or critical. One way of describing it would be as an example of the “process” of communication being so much more important than the “content.” Unfortunately, when writing, it’s hard to have much process because all that the written word usually lends itself to is content (unless, I suppose, a lot of effort is made by each writer to carefully explain each comment that could possibly be misinterpreted, which can obviously be very difficult and time-consuming).
So, I think that it might be helpful if we try to make an effort to be mindful of how the people to whom we’re writing might possibly construe some of our statements, even if we think that we ourselves might never perceive them in such a way. I really think that it might help us to avoid a lot of misunderstandings, conflict, and hurt feelings.
Your brother in Christ,
Randy

Jeff:
Dave,

I owe you an apology. I read what's his name's response and made an assumption.  I hope you'll forgive me.

Jeff

lilitalienboi16:
I have read through the comments and watched as feelings were hurt. I have only to remind everyone that rebuke, reproof, correction, all these things are not without there proper place but are necessary. They are as necessary and important as loving one another. Jesus didn't just rebuke the pharisees, He rebukes the entire church in revelation, He rebukes us, He corrects us, He chastens us, He loves us (among other things which He does). These are all components of His love. Remember that we are to be like Jesus.

Proverbs 27:5-6 Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Proverbs 28:23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

God bless,
Alex

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