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[lilitalienboi16]

I am a carnal minded man sold under sin who God has dragged to Himself and is teaching and training me as He does all other believers to grow in righteousness, the end of that training is when I believe we then have the mind of Christ in full measure until then we are subjected to error.

I am not there yet and that is why I question my motives because I do not have the mind of Christ in full measure for if I did I would not have sinned because Christ did not sin.

The human heart is deceitful above all things and I trust myself for nothing in this life so I question everything that is given me to question.

If one desires to be Gods elect they should think of two things, is this the prompting of the Holy Spirit which is pure or is it the carnal mind wanting to assert itself ?

I come to believe that whatever we human beings do is totally self centered in all things in all areas, anything that we do that is good can only be from God if one is not saved or by the prompting of the Holy spirit if one is on their way to salvation because we are not saved as of now but are in process of being saved.

Rick, I really do get it that God is in control of all things and yes as long as we are in this flesh we are subject to error. Sometimes I wonder if we might overthink some of these things and just get stuck. But to desire to be among the chosen few is always a good thing whatever the motive, even if you are not chosen it would still benefit you to seek Christ. Anyway here is a couple of Scripture that show how they dealt with people that were outside of Christ's chosen few followers.

Php 1:15  Some are preaching the Messiah because of jealousy and dissension, while others do so because of their good will.
v. 16  The latter are motivated by love, because they know that I have been appointed to defend the gospel.
v. 17  The former proclaim the Messiah because they are selfishly ambitious and insincere, thinking that they will stir up trouble for me during my imprisonment.
v. 18  But so what? Just this—that in every way, whether by false or true motives, the Messiah is being proclaimed. Because of this, I rejoice and will continue to rejoice. (ISV)

Luke 9:49  John answered, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us."
v. 50  But Jesus said to him, "Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Very interesting scriptures Kat. I've read them before but I havn't pondered them long. Such an interesting topic in that regard.

God bless,
Alex

[rick]

I am a carnal minded man sold under sin who God has dragged to Himself and is teaching and training me as He does all other believers to grow in righteousness, the end of that training is when I believe we then have the mind of Christ in full measure until then we are subjected to error.

I am not there yet and that is why I question my motives because I do not have the mind of Christ in full measure for if I did I would not have sinned because Christ did not sin.

The human heart is deceitful above all things and I trust myself for nothing in this life so I question everything that is given me to question.

If one desires to be Gods elect they should think of two things, is this the prompting of the Holy Spirit which is pure or is it the carnal mind wanting to assert itself ?

I come to believe that whatever we human beings do is totally self centered in all things in all areas, anything that we do that is good can only be from God if one is not saved or by the prompting of the Holy spirit if one is on their way to salvation because we are not saved as of now but are in process of being saved.

Rick, I really do get it that God is in control of all things and yes as long as we are in this flesh we are subject to error. Sometimes I wonder if we might overthink some of these things and just get stuck. But to desire to be among the chosen few is always a good thing whatever the motive, even if you are not chosen it would still benefit you to seek Christ. Anyway here is a couple of Scripture that show how they dealt with people that were outside of Christ's chosen few followers.

Php 1:15  Some are preaching the Messiah because of jealousy and dissension, while others do so because of their good will.
v. 16  The latter are motivated by love, because they know that I have been appointed to defend the gospel.
v. 17  The former proclaim the Messiah because they are selfishly ambitious and insincere, thinking that they will stir up trouble for me during my imprisonment.
v. 18  But so what? Just this—that in every way, whether by false or true motives, the Messiah is being proclaimed. Because of this, I rejoice and will continue to rejoice. (ISV)

Luke 9:49  John answered, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us."
v. 50  But Jesus said to him, "Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Hi Kat,

If one is incline to be here and to learn from Rays teaching it must be of God and yes I do agree its very beneficial to learn as much as one is afforded to learn from Rays teaching, as you know, his teachings are of God.

I also thought about that aspect too of not being the elect and had question that saying why stay,   
first, being in the white throne judgement with false doctrine initially must be a frightful thing to believe your going to be cast into a fiery torment without end without any hope of being released. 

2nd being in the white throne judgement with the understanding of this forum is a good thing, 1st we know there is no such place as hell as taught by Christendom 2nd we know what Gods plan for all humanity is so there is a great advantage to learn the things of God now.

Although we are no different from the rest of humanity we are specially blessed by God to learn these things now which indeed do give us hope for being in the first resurrection and if we discover our hope was false, we know it shall not be false the 2nd time around but with certainty except for those who will not be forgiven in this aged 0r the next age to come because they gave credit to Satan rather than God and by doing so they have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit such as the pharisee who said Christ expelled demons by the chief demon.     
                              
I think there is something to be said of those here who are forever questioning everything about themselves, their faith and about their sins, the base things of this world will know and understand if resurrected in the first resurrection it truly was of God and not themselves, there shall be no boasting but only thankfulness.
I want to be in the first resurrection but more over, its what Christ wants but if I am excepting of being in the first resurrection I should also be excepting of the 2nd and maybe its that, excepting Gods choice regardless of what we want, after all, is there someone who does not agree that Father knows best.

Kat, I always thank you for your response, sometimes I learn from them other times you reinforce what I already know making me stronger in that knowledge. I see You’re a very caring person with a good understanding of Gods truths and you’re a great spiritual asset to this forum as well.

God bless you Kat and everyone else too.   

[repottinger]

Thank you very much, Alex.
God bless you, too.
Sincerely,
Randy

[Terry]

This post has been much help to me,my heart goes out to Rick as it seems we were cut from the same cloth, i also know we all are in a fight like we've never known before but as hard as it is i still have unspeakable Joy knowing these beautiful truths of God there's so much i don't understand yet, so i try to meditate on what Jesus has shown me so far, i tell you this i'm in Love with this man from Galilee no matter how hard it gets i still feel love and joy.

We are so much help to one another whether we realize it or not and that's not by chance either and i agree with Rick on this also,

Kat, I always thank you for your response, sometimes I learn from them other times you reinforce what I already know making me stronger in that knowledge. I see You’re a very caring person with a good understanding of Gods truths and you’re a great spiritual asset to this forum as well.

God bless you Kat and everyone else too.

Love you all
Terry

[Kat]

I will say this place is unequivocally a blessing to me. I come here to fellowship with like minded believers, and I think we really need this. I know that it can be hard to share exactly what we are thinking in our conversations, and so misunderstandings do occur. But I think if we desire the contact enough and strive to not be offended, it is of great benefit to us. So I will continue to insert myself into these discussions and hope we all can gain a positive benefit from this less than perfect attempt at communicating.

We are a family and that includes to good the bad and the ugly aspects of it 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Rene]

This post has been much help to me,my heart goes out to Rick as it seems we were cut from the same cloth, i also know we all are in a fight like we've never known before but as hard as it is i still have unspeakable Joy knowing these beautiful truths of God there's so much i don't understand yet, so i try to meditate on what Jesus has shown me so far, i tell you this i'm in Love with this man from Galilee no matter how hard it gets i still feel love and joy.

Terry, it is nice to hear about the love and joy you are feeling. The indwelling of God's spirit will produce "spiritual fruit" in us and this fruit will be evident in our lives.

Gal. 5:22-23 - "But, the fruit of the Spirit is—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, graciousness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control;—against such things as these, there is no law."

Gal. 5:25 - "If we live by Spirit, by Spirit, let us also walk."

René

[octoberose]

 Rick, I don't think I understand what you are saying here, " Although we are no different from the rest of humanity we are specially blessed by God to learn these things now which indeed do give us hope for being in the first resurrection and if we discover our hope was false, we know it shall not be false the 2nd time around but with certainty except for those who will not be forgiven in this aged 0r the next age to come because they gave credit to Satan rather than God and by doing so they have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit such as the pharisee who said Christ expelled demons by the chief demon."

My question is about "those who will not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come". Just to clarify I don't think you are saying that there are those who will not ultimately be reconciled but the way it is written I am not sure.

This has been a very good discussion- I appreciate those who have posted.   

[rick]

This post has been much help to me,my heart goes out to Rick as it seems we were cut from the same cloth

Hi Terry,


You must see things in my writings that you can identify with, you don’t post that much here so I’ve not been afforded the same connection with you of course.

I come from a background of broken promises and a broken home, I have more memories of my mom than my dad, you see he wasn’t there Terry, it’s the hand of cards God dealt me.

Part of my life was spent growing up in the gangsters paradise seeing things and hearing things that are not good for a child to see or hear, no, I have no desire to be a gangster, I want to be a godly man.

I’ve heard it said we are a product of our environment but I don’t believe that because I know what my environment says I should be but am not.

I come to realize the hand of cards God dealt me was not design to beat another man but to beat the man of sin ( me ). Knowing what I know today if I could go back in time and change something in my past I would let it remain because my past is what got me to where I’m at today and all this, design by God.

Many people I’ve know at a young age didn’t make it, some died from a drug overdose and some were murdered but I’m still alive, I believe God wants me to keep living until I receive His truths,  God wants me to keep living to the man of sin is conquered.

Yes, God wants me to die before I get to rest in the biggest prison on earth, the grave yard.

If you can relate to these things then we are cut from the same cloth if not I’m happy for you and thankful these things you cannot relate to.   

God bless you terry and always remember the things Ray taught, his teaching are from God and God has given us the greatest hope not many in this life have.

God bless. 

[lilitalienboi16]

Rick, I don't think I understand what you are saying here, " Although we are no different from the rest of humanity we are specially blessed by God to learn these things now which indeed do give us hope for being in the first resurrection and if we discover our hope was false, we know it shall not be false the 2nd time around but with certainty except for those who will not be forgiven in this aged 0r the next age to come because they gave credit to Satan rather than God and by doing so they have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit such as the pharisee who said Christ expelled demons by the chief demon."

My question is about "those who will not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come". Just to clarify I don't think you are saying that there are those who will not ultimately be reconciled but the way it is written I am not sure.

This has been a very good discussion- I appreciate those who have posted.   

He is referencing this:

Matthew 12:30-32
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [Greek: AGE] , neither in the world [Greek: AGE] to come.

Mar 3:28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming,
Mar 3:29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-"

Everyone will ultimately be reconciled.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Col 1:12-20 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were ALL THINGS created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and BY HIM ALL THINGS HACE THEIR COHESION. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.


God bless,
Alex

[rick]

My question is about "those who will not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come". Just to clarify I don't think you are saying that there are those who will not ultimately be reconciled but the way it is written I am not sure.

Hi Octoberose,

 
My apologies for the confusion, we are in the first age and some in this age are being called by God which are His elect ( the few ) , the next age ( the many )will stand before the white throne judgement but there will be people being born in the next age also that will be like the many in this age who are not being called by God at that time, so there is another aged afterwards where they shall go through the lake of fire as we are now.

We are at the beginning of Gods plan and how many ages Gods plan will take I don’t know but I do know at some age Christ will hand the keys of the kingdom to His Father and our Father and then the ages of reconciliation will then be over and after that I have not a clue what Gods plan will be but I do know there will be no more sorrow or pain or tears and evil will not exist.

And when these things come to pass, every age after that will be awesome beyond our understanding now.

   
Everyone will eventually be save because that is Gods will and Gods will, will be done but there are at least two more ages of what is going on in this age but Gods elect will not suffer in the next age or any other age afterwards.

God bless. 

[Kat]

but there will be people being born in the next age also that will be like the many in this age who are not being called by God at that time, so there is another aged afterwards where they shall go through the lake of fire as we are now.

Hi Rick, here's a thought, do we know "there will be people being born in the next age"? Not trying to cause confusion, but understand what exactly the Scripture say on these things. I don't know of any that say there will continue to be births after this age... but there is a exchange between Jesus and the Sadducees that seems to indicate there will not be.

Mat 22:23  The same day Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection, and they asked him a question,
v. 24  saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies having no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother.'
v. 25  Now there were seven brothers among us. The first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother.
v. 26  So too the second and third, down to the seventh.
v. 27  After them all, the woman died.
v. 28  In the resurrection, therefore, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her."
v. 29  But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
v. 30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Jesus was not speaking to believers, nor does it seem like the resurrection He speaks of is the first resurrection. Yes there will be ages to go, because "but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt 12:32). When you think about it, the next ages are for judgment and giving account for what was done in this age.

Heb 9:27  And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Rev 21:4  He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

If "death shall be no more" where is the continuing cycle of life and death? I could see how this cycle of physical birth and life and death would come to an end with this age, but this is just another one of those things to ponder.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rick]

Hi Kat,

I see these verses in reference to the next age, when Gods elect shall reign with Christ, Isa 65:20 to me is talking about a sinner, Isa 65:21 to 24 is about Gods elect and Isa 65 :25 doesn’t happen in this age because the wolf and the lamb do not eat together and if I might add, for good reasoning on the lambs part.

This is why I think maybe the next age shall find people being born into it and we know Christ said to the pharisee that he will not be forgiven in this age nor the next but we do know its Gods will that all be saved, but still there must be two more ages that God must work through to get everyone saved.

I don’t believe its going to be just that one pharisee who will be in the third age learning righteousness so there must be some in the next age who will find themselves in the third age learning righteousness as well and could be some that are being born in the next age, yes Christ said they do error, but even though they will not marry or be given in marriage means nothing in this age because unmarried people do give birth and so maybe in the next age they do the same thing as they do in this age.

I don’t know for sure but for me it seems that could be the case.


Isa 65:20  There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isa 65:21  And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

Isa 65:22  They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Isa 65:23  They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

Isa 65:24  And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

Isa 65:25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.


God bless.

[Kat]

Rick, what Jesus was saying in Matt 12 about those He was referring to that would not be forgiven even in the next, we just do not know of who else might have to go into that age to be saved.

As far as Isaiah 65, i too think that is speaking of the next age, look at how it reads in the Eastern Standard Version.

Isa 65:20  No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days...

And here are a couple more about children, that I think is talking about the next age too.

Isa 11:6  The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isa 11:8  The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

When you think that there will be a great number of babies in the resurrection, so there will be plenty of children that will have to be nurtured and grow up in the next age that's for sure and "death shall be no more.".

Now as far people fornicating and producing children in the next age... I just do not see that happening under Christ's reign, He will rule with a "rod of iron" and so will the elect.

Rev 19:15  From His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

Rev 2:26  And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:
v. 27  and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of My Father:

I believe the next age will be quite opposite of this age, where as "everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes" (Deu 12:08). No what God said will be true, people will learn righteousness and obey Him.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rick]

Hi Kat,

I see what you mean concerning some speculation on my part which if it cannot be proven scripturally it remains in the realm of speculation which can be misleading and confusing.

I do agree with you that the next age will be totally different from this aged because of the scriptures that tell me so.

The next age, the child shall lie beside the lion and not be hurt, there will not be in the next aged what we see in this age and all will learn righteousness and no wrong doing will happen on Gods Holy mountain.

It will be a beautiful aged for a child to grow up in compared to this aged we live in now. I can hardly wait for the next aged to arrive.

 
Thanks for the correction and guidance Kat,

God bless. 

[John from Kentucky]

There will be sexual relations between men and women in the age to come.

Mat 22:23-30 is speaking of the 1st Resurrection because in verse 30 Jesus says we will be like the angels in heaven, that is made of spirit.

As Ray has taught, those in the 2nd Resurrection, or the Resurrection to Judgment, will not have spirit bodies, but will be resurrected with physical bodies.  Reference the Book of Ezechiel and the valley of dry bones.

Sex is a good thing.  God created us male and female.  Males and females will be attracted to one another, be allowed to marry, and will produce children.  There is a Scripture that children will play in the streets of Jerusalem in the age to come.

Sex differences are a major fact among living things.  Created and blessed by the Great God.

Satan and His Great False Church teach that sex is dirty.  Something to be ashamed of.  It is another lie of Satan.  The Scriptures tell us that in addition to controlling what we eat, it is the doctrine of demons to forbid marriage and to change the proper use of sex.

Even among resurrected spirit beings, they will have sexual differences; they will be male and female; God will have sons and daughters.  But I will say no more about that.  It would be too much for some among us.   

[Kat]

John, did not Jesus say in Matt 22 very specifically what He was speaking of?

Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.

The Sadducees was speaking about whose wife the woman (not speaking to believers and no mention of them) would be in the resurrection and Christ was speaking of that issue, marriage in the next age. There is nothing in the passage that indicates this is speaking of spiritual bodies of the elect, you have to read that into it. This verse merely is saying the angels do not marry and neither will those in the next.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[John from Kentucky]

Yes, Kat, I agree Jesus was specific in what He said in Mat 22:30.

He was talking about marriage not about sex.  Marriage and sex are two different things, which is why they are two different words.

And as Ray mentioned in his article on marriage, sex is not required to make a marriage.  Two different things.

But I am going to bow out of this discussion, and I'll tell you why.  I have my opinion about sex after the 1st Resurrection.  But I do not have at least two Scriptures to support that opinion.

But those who say no sex after the 1st Resurrection, do not have at least two Scriptures to support their opinion either.

God just does not discuss the subject in the Scriptures.  We actually do not have that much solid knowledge of what it will be like in the Resurrection.  Although there is much speculation.

[octoberose]

Thank you all for the reply. I thought that was what you were speaking about but it was something like 4 in the morning when I was reading and I wanted to clarify!
   I think I'm still on topic - well sort of- so let me ask this. We're talking about the first resurrection and what God has in store for the elect and then the 2nd resurrection which is the white throne judgement. What I have never been clear about is after the elect meet Jesus and are changed in a twinkling of an eye- what happens to everyone else until their judgement?  You've touched on it but it's been a big black hole in my understanding. Are we to understand that a 1000 years is a literal amount of time, or is it a symbol of whatever time God has in store?
 

[John from Kentucky]

Yes, the 1,000 years are symbolic.  As is the Book of Revelation.  It is written in symbols.

As Ray mentioned, all the symbols are explained elsewhere in the Scriptures.  In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established, as guided by the Holy Spirit.

[Kat]

Actually John, there is this same thing spoken of in Luke 20 in more detail.

Luke 20:33  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
v. 34  And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
v. 35  But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
v. 36  Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
v. 37  Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
v. 38  For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Now less you think that this passage that these "children of God" is speaking of the elect, this is in the next age, it's not in respect to their character, but nature as they're “being the children of the resurrection,” as it goes on to say Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be also at resurrection.  Also it states in Revelation in the next age God will dwell among the people.

Rev 21:3  And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God and they His son.

Rev 21:6  And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
v. 7  He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

mercy, peace and love
Kat