> General Discussions
The Cross
cheekie3:
octoberose -
I agree with what you have stated; apart from this segment:
He was separated from his Father for the first time in his existence- for us.
I do not believe Jesus Christ was separated from His Father while He lived as a human being, or died as a human being.
Jesus' spirit returned to His Father when he died as a human being.
Jesus' spirit was given a new Glorified spiritual body when He was resurrected by His Father.
I do not know if in the state of being dead, if Jesus Christ was not aware of anything as Abraham is not aware to this day - as I do not yet fully understand 100% all things about The One True God (The Father and His Son) - as it is an enigma - and Jesus Christ was the first in His Creation - and Jesus was unified with His Father from the beginning of all things; as when you see and hear Jesus Christ, you see and hear The Father.
Jesus Himself said that He had the power to give up His Life and Raise it up again - and the Scripture confirms that The Father resurrected Jesus Christ.
I do not believe Jesus was lying when He said that He had the power to raise Himself up again from the dead.
We know that everything in creation exists in Him (Jesus Christ) - and The Father always does His work through Jesus Christ.
Jesus was still in charge of all things when He became a human being; as he was still unified with His Father.
As Ray said on many occasions - there is more to Our God than we realise.
In Holy Spirit.
George.
Kat:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on October 10, 2015, 06:23:59 AM ---
I do not know if in the state of being dead, if Jesus Christ was not aware of anything as Abraham is not aware to this day - as I do not yet fully understand 100% all things about The One True God (The Father and His Son) - as it is an enigma - and Jesus Christ was the first in His Creation - and Jesus was unified with His Father from the beginning of all things; as when you see and hear Jesus Christ, you see and hear The Father.
Jesus Himself said that He had the power to give up His Life and Raise it up again - and the Scripture confirms that The Father resurrected Jesus Christ.
I do not believe Jesus was lying when He said that He had the power to raise Himself up again from the dead.
We know that everything in creation exists in Him (Jesus Christ) - and The Father always does His work through Jesus Christ.
Jesus was still in charge of all things when He became a human being; as he was still unified with His Father.
As Ray said on many occasions - there is more to Our God than we realise.
--- End quote ---
Hi George, I believe that it is important to understand that when Christ died for our sins, He was indeed dead. I do not believe this is an enigma, Ray spoke about it many times.
It's always good to review these aspects of truth and this is from the LOF article 16E. 'Hades and the Second Death.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm ----------------
"Death and hell [hades/unseen] followed with him" (Rev. 6:08)
Notice that again we have "death and hell" put together. The reason is rational: the one leads to the other (as in our three different definition for the word 'death'):
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell [Gk: hades] followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." (Rev. 6:08).
Clearly, sword, hunger, death, and beasts, are four methods of ending life which then brings all these categories to hell/hades, the realm of the DEAD. And this is the same hell/hades which our Lord was in when He was dead in the tomb, where it was prophesied that His soul (His sentient, animated life of feelings and emotions) would not be left there in this unseen, imperceptible, condition and realm of the dead.
And it is these dead "people," not dead "cadavers" which God is going to raise.
v
And when Jesus died for the sins of the world, He was also "dead." If Jesus was not dead as theologians and many Christians believe, then we don't have a Saviour. God the Father did not send Jesus' "body" to be the "Saviour of the world." Let's read it again:
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" (I Cor. 15:3).
It was "CHRIST" Who died for our sins and it was "CHRIST" Who was DEAD. When people "die," they are "dead." Christ "died," and Christ was "dead." And therefore, it is Christ Who is the Saviour of the World, not a "cadaver."
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent [Gk: 'send out on a mission'--hence a commission] the Son [Who? 'the Son.' The Son's body? NO, 'THE SON] to be the Saviour of the world" (I John 4:14).
Are we to believe that the "Saviour of the world" was a "cadaver"--the dead body of Jesus? Is that what the Father commissioned? NO, the Father commissioned "THE SON [Jesus Christ] to be the Saviour of the world." Who or What "died for our sins?" Someone's "body?" Let's read it again: "CHRIST died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (I Cor. 15:3). I'm going too fast again, aren't I? So why do orthodox Christian theologians teach that Jesus NEVER DIED, and since only His "body" died, then His "body" must be "the Saviour of the world."
v
Jesus died, and was DEAD. When they put Jesus' body in the tomb, they put JESUS in the tomb. When Jesus died for the sins of the world; Jesus was dead, not just His body. And when Jesus rose from the dead, it was not just His body. It is JESUS Who is the "Saviour of the world," and not just a corpse, a body, a cadaver? Christians have taught the world that man can't die. That he has an immortal soul that cannot die. That when people die they are not dead. That at death people "go somewhere." It is all unscriptural pagan nonsense.
Jesus' soul, His sentient being, His intellect, feelings, emotions, and heart, which define the human soul, went into a state of "imperceptibility." His soul was in the realm or state of hades which means "the unseen, the imperceptible," the state of death, the realm of the dead, the sheol of the Hebrew.
v
Now then, do the dead know that they are dead, or do they know anything at all?
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not ANYTHING" (Ecc. 9:5).
---------------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---I do not believe Jesus was lying when He said that He had the power to raise Himself up again from the dead.
We know that everything in creation exists in Him (Jesus Christ) - and The Father always does His work through Jesus Christ.
Jesus was still in charge of all things when He became a human being; as he was still unified with His Father.
--- End quote ---
Yes George, everything concerning this creation is, was and will be done through Christ, but we also know that everything that Christ is comes from the Father. Christ depend on the Father, the Father does not depend on Christ. So when Jesus was actually crucified and was dead (a critical part of the work of this creation), and was without life of any kind for that short period of time, it is not hard to figure that the Father continued to sustain this/His creation.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
I really wish we could discuss this topic further about the Enigma of God but alas we are not permitted here. All as God wills! So many interesting scriptures to consider and discuss.
cheekie3:
Kat -
Off course Jesus Christ really died.
I am saying that even in death, I do not believe Jesus Christ was separated from His and Our Father.
There is a significant difference.
God is - and God created all things through Jesus Christ, including human life and death.
Jesus has the keys of Life and Death.
I do not believe Ray taught completely on the enigma that is The One True God - but I understand that he was about to - but it was not to be.
I do not fully understand the enigma of God - but I do not believe that Jesus was separated from His Father when He died as a human being.
If I am wrong, I am wrong - but I believe nothing can separate Jesus Christ from the Love of His Father - not even His death.
In Holy Spirit.
George.
rick:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on October 10, 2015, 01:43:22 PM ---Kat -
I do not fully understand the enigma of God - but I do not believe that Jesus was separated from His Father when He died as a human being.
If I am wrong, I am wrong - but I believe nothing can separate Jesus Christ from the Love of His Father - not even His death.
George.
--- End quote ---
Hi Cheekie,
He is the God of the living not the dead because all are alive to God because He has the power to resurrect but Eve was deceived when Satan told her saying you shall surely not die, I know what Satan said to Eve and I see many graveyards every time I go out, Satan is the father of lies.
God said to Adam if you eat of the tree I commanded you not to eat of you will surely die but Satan said to Eve you will not surely die but who are you going to believe ? Christ died the day He was crucified His thoughts perished that day, the living know they shall die but the dead know nothing.
Even though Christ was dead the Father still loved Christ, His death did not nor could it stop the love of the Father from Christ His son.
This is how Christendom deceives people into believing there is a hell by telling them when you die you’re not really dead, if you were good you go to heaven but if you were bad then you go to hell. If that is true what need of the resurrection from the dead is there if we don’t die as stated by God.
Christendom is still telling the first recorded lie that Satan started way back in the garden of Eden. I don’t believe Satan and I certainly don’t believe Christendom, I believe God and when God said you will die He means you will die.
Who ran creation when Christ die, simple, God the Father did. The Father is good at everything even running the whole creation without error. Remember Christ said be perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect so one can say the Father was perfect at running the whole creation while Christ laid dead in a tomb with no thoughts at all because the dead know nothing.
God bless. :)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version