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God's Love
lauriellen:
I admit I had a hard time swallowing this when Ray first came out with this paper. Over time, I think I have come to understand a little better and it has taken the 'sting' out of it somewhat. It would be completely unacceptable to me if not for the knowledge that it is all part of the plan and that God will completely destroy in each of us all that he hates and we will all become the unique individual we were created to be. I think that even thru the 'hate', God is still working His love:
Rom_5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Thank you Kat for all those great posts.
AwesomeSavior:
God sending His Son to redeem us and save us from sin is the ultimate act of hatred against sinners. It is the ultimate rejection of sinners. God hated Saul. God hated the "chief sinner" Saul so much that he put his Holy Spirit into Saul and named him Paul. God utterly consumed and destroyed Saul. He ground him into powder. The Lion of Judah crushed Saul under his claw. Then, Paul emerged and was born. God loved Paul.
God's expression of hate for the sinner is that He does not favor the sinner to remain in sin, and therefore destroys the sinner by creating a new person through the Spirit. God rejects sinners by healing them of sin.
The foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Cor. 1:25)
Jeff:
Hi Kat,
Thank you for taking the time to write about this.
I know the Scriptures don't contradict, but for some reason I can't pull this together in my head.
Is it simply that God has the capacity to hate as well love? Is that the message Ray was giving us when he wrote about God hating sin?
If all of this simply means that God can hate as well as love, then I'm WAY overthinking this. In that case I'm looking for something that isn't there and I need to quit it.
If there's more to it, then this would be confusing to me...
Luke 18:19 (YLT) "And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good, except One - God"
Jeff
Kat:
--- Quote from: Jeff on November 02, 2015, 06:27:11 PM ---Is it simply that God has the capacity to hate as well love? Is that the message Ray was giving us when he wrote about God hating sin?
If all of this simply means that God can hate as well as love, then I'm WAY overthinking this. In that case I'm looking for something that isn't there and I need to quit it.
--- End quote ---
Hi Jeff, I don't know if you are overthinking this, some of these things require much contemplation, but God does state what He hates in many Scripture.
Hate \"hAt\ n 1 : intense hostility and aversion (Merriam-Webster)
God certainly 'hates' sin and is showing mankind the havoc it wrecks through personal experience of it. Yes God has made it to be this way, He has made us all to be sinners, for the very purpose to absolutely prove to us how terrible sin is, from our experience with it.
Yes only God is good, He is the epitome of good, He has determined what is good. In His wisdom in designing humans He knows what will bring us real joy and happiness. For now He is giving us an experience in evil, so we have a comparison from which we can truly understand good, by seeing/experiencing it's opposite, evil. We see sin/evil=pain, suffering, torment, hopelessness, the opposite of what good does... would/could we truly understand what the goodness of God is/does if we did not really understand what sin is/does? Without anything to compare it with?
So God has shown in many Scriptures exactly what His goodness is about, love. He has also shown precisely what sin is about, enmity to God's goodness... when we sin we are God's enemy, separate from Him, which we all are at first to gain the knowledge of good AND evil.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
Eph 2:11 So then, remember that at one time you gentiles by birth were called "the uncircumcised" by those (Jews) who called themselves "the circumcised." They underwent physical circumcision done by human hands.
v. 12 At that time you were without the Messiah, excluded from citizenship in Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise. You had no hope and were in the world without God. (ISV)
There is no other way to look at it, the process that we all must go through is hard, for some horrific, sin is ugly and it is our ruin. God hates all this, of course He hates sin and He hates those that commit it... it's in total opposition to Him. But it's the way it must be to accomplish the end results.
But this is only the beginning for us, Christ has already come and suffered Himself (evil was done to Him) and He literally died as our sacrifice. We are the chosen few fortunate ones who have been brought to Christ first, before the rest, now we have life/peace IN Him.
Eph 2:13 But now, in union with the Messiah Jesus, you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.
v. 14 For it is He who is our peace. Through His mortality He made both groups (Gentiles and Jews) one by tearing down the wall of hostility that divided them. (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11)
v. 15 He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in Himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,
v. 16 and reconciling both groups to God in one body through the cross, on which He eliminated the hostility.
v. 17 He came and proclaimed peace for you who were far away (Gentiles) and for you who were near (Jews).
v. 18 For through Him, both of us have access to the Father by one Spirit. (ISV)
We are being brought to God, our enmity/sin removed, being overcome by the Holy Spirit in us... first we had to taste of sin like everybody does, but now we can have His peace, IN Him.
Col 1:19 For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
v. 20 and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.
v. 21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
v. 22 He has now reconciled in His body of flesh by His death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before Him,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Jeff:
This topic has me wondering if God has ever loved me. I don't mean that in a "poor me" way but just as an observation when I look back. I'm 56 and I've known God since I was small, first the way child knows of God, then in the Church, and for the past 6 years here after I found this place.
I have nothing in me that would qualify as fruit of the spirit. My life has been one disastrous, epic fail after another. There's never been joy or contentment and I've never known real love of any kind though it's probably been there and I wasn't able to recognize it. My childhood was full of abuse and since my teenage years I've been medicated to keep depression at bay, and maybe illness has something to do with my experience, but it raises a question.
Is it possible that God has hated me from the beginning?
I don't want this to be a sob story, it's not like that, I'm accountable for every mistake and sin, but I think if it's possible that God has hated me, then it might explain some things. I try to be obedient but fail often every day. Maybe the illness is part of it but I need to find out how God has seen me throughout my life, and especially now, here, today.
Definitely something to think about.
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