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[Dennis Vogel]

At https://youtu.be/TNn8V6rxGHU Brian King asks this question:

Out of curiosity, I have been reading bible truths.com for about a year now. I have actually managed to pour over all the topics and even the emails twice. I am going back over the website again but this time I haven't had time to read as I am driving a lot lately. (school commute) I would like to thank you for putting up these videos up as they are the highlights for me on my long drive and just these few videos have cleared up so much confusion during my reading sessions. So, back to my question. Ray has mentioned before in his literature how context is nearly a damnable thing. He also has said that context isn't needed for the majority of the stuff read. Yet, context is at the basic level of our language for comprehension. And then right after he mentions context not being important he will mention a person quoting various scripture at him and then he will say to that person quoting those scriptures that context IS important for those scriptures. So which is it? Important or not?

Anyone what to help him with this?

[lilitalienboi16]

At https://youtu.be/TNn8V6rxGHU Brian King asks this question:

Out of curiosity, I have been reading bible truths.com for about a year now. I have actually managed to pour over all the topics and even the emails twice. I am going back over the website again but this time I haven't had time to read as I am driving a lot lately. (school commute) I would like to thank you for putting up these videos up as they are the highlights for me on my long drive and just these few videos have cleared up so much confusion during my reading sessions. So, back to my question. Ray has mentioned before in his literature how context is nearly a damnable thing. He also has said that context isn't needed for the majority of the stuff read. Yet, context is at the basic level of our language for comprehension. And then right after he mentions context not being important he will mention a person quoting various scripture at him and then he will say to that person quoting those scriptures that context IS important for those scriptures. So which is it? Important or not?

Anyone what to help him with this?

Hi Dennis,

I think what it all comes down to is rightly dividing the Word.

The following example might help.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Ray was fond of this example and that's because its a good one. Regardless of the audience, place, or time, God is and always will be love. You can take that verse out of context and place it on the moon if you like and it will still be an absolute foundation truth.

The opposite of this would be with an incomplete thought where the context becomes very important. For example:

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

If you read this verse out of context and lack the spirit of God, you might be led to believe that it is up to your individual free will power to save yourself and that is why you should tremble and fear when working out your own salvation.

However this perspective would contradict the many verses of scripture where we are shown it is the absolute sovereign God who is saving His creation and not the creation saving itself. We see then through this the importance of rightly dividing the Word through God's Spirit, especially the importance of "the SUM of thy word is truth (Psalm 119:160)." Now thankfully we aren't left with just this statement as it stands in philippian 2:12 but rather have the complete though when we consider the verse which follows directly afterwards:

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:13 For [BECAUSE] it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now we get the truth of the matter. THE REASON man is to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. Not because its up to him to save himself but because of the complete opposite. GOD is saving him and there is nothing he can do to change that process or speed it up. He can't choose to be an elect of God, to have his eyes opened to the truth etc... So have reverence for God, tremble, realize your need for Him.

So I guess the question becomes how do we know when something requires context? Perhaps much of that comes with time through God's teaching us of what is and isn't true. Ray wrote his paper on understanding the Word and he gives all the scriptural truth pertaining to help one better study the Word of God (http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm). The most important being that without God's spirit the word will remain an enigmatic sealed shut text with little gained.

I put together some scriptures in another thread regarding some of what ray wrote and I will simply copy and paste that over here with the source provided if perchance what I wrote is helpful.

Src: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,16285.msg147430.html#msg147430

2 Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its own explanation.

1 Corinthians 2:12-15 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Everything you need to understand scripture is itself contained within the scriptures but without the spirit of God it will be in vain. You will never find in scripture two witnesses that testify to the idea that the beast of scripture is anything else but mankind itself. Notice I said "in scripture" because you can find plenty of that nonsense outside of it.

Zechariah 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.

The two witnesses have power:

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The scriptures are the witnesses because they are who testify of God and in their multitude their is safety!

Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Proverbs 24:6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Every word and doctrine we believe is testified to by the cloud of witnesses, the multitude of counselors, the two anointed ones who stand before the Lord of all the earth. It must be or it is not truth!

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Zechariah 4:11-14
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Jesus' words are spirit and to understand spirit you need to compare spiritual with spiritual. And to compare something with something else you need those two witnesses!

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Lastly, what you establish as doctrine cannot contradict the other truths of scripture (established in the mouth of two or three witnesses) because the Sum of God's Word is truth.

Psa 119:160  The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.

Well I hope this helps out Brian and God willing makes sense. Its how I understand things currently.

God bless,
Alex

[Extol]

It may help to understand the context of Ray's comments.   

When he decries context as damnable, he is talking about how it pulls people away from the big picture. They are looking at parts, not the sum, and they think those parts stand on their own, and contradict what we know is the sum.

For example, Ray often used Isaiah 46:10 to show God's sovereignty. But the context person says, "no we have to remember the context..God is talking to the Israelites in captivity and prophesying about the ravenous bird, Cyrus, coming to destroy Babylon."

While that may be true, when people focus on the context, they don't see that it is more than just a contextual truth. We know from this verse and many others that God declares the end from the beginning in ALL of our lives, and will do his pleasure and have his will come to pass.

Ray did not mean that historical context was useless or nonexistent. For example, he said he knows that when God said "make an ark of gopher wood" he was talking to Noah before the flood, and it's not our job to go in the backyard and make an ark (at least not a physical one made of wood.)

Likewise, Ray knew that the kinsman redeemer removing his sandal and giving it to Boaz was historical, cultural context, and not something we do today. But using that context as grounds to twist or simply not believe scriptural truths...that's what irked him about the context folks.

[cheekie3]

Dennis -

Are we not all seeking and craving for His Absolute Truths.

I know that I am.

When I learn one of His Absolute Truths, whether it be from one of Jesus' parables or in another context (whether the event happened or not) - I take that Absolute Truth and test it with His Holy Scriptures (and once two or three Scriptural witnesses are established, I eat and drink that Absolute Truth - and there is nothing that can then take out that Absolute Truth from me - as it is now part of me as it has always been part of Him).

So, I see context as a tool to establish an Absolute Truth of The Almighty; and as such, the context is NOT primary but secondary - and if we focus on context (the secondary), we will never see this particular Absolute Truth (the primary).

Humbly in Him.

George.

[Kat]

I find many times the context surrounding a Scripture to be necessary, even essential, to gain a understanding of the circumstance that is being spoken by a person. As knowing when an apostle is speaking to brethren or Pharisees (usually found at the beginning of a passage) to give a proper perspective of what is being said. Also the speaker might build up a subject (with many verse for context) before reaching the point being made.

But I also see the problem Ray spoke of... when somebody tries to hold a verse to a meaning that only the context provides, with no further allowance, than you greatly limit what can be understood. When only looking at the literal 'context' it will prevent from going on to see the much greater higher spiritual meaning in a verse... but blind eyes cannot understand the spiritual, so they hold to the literal, context.

So I think Ray was right on both counts, context is important, but people holding a verse to only it's context is a damnable thing as well.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Reminds me of;

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

So which is it?

Indeed, Ray was correct on both accounts!

[Dave in Tenn]

Another thing to consider:  Scripture wasn't written with chapter and verse.  If you stop reading too soon (or don't start reading soon enough) you can miss what's being said "in context", which is the thing being said.  "Context" can also help in understanding the words--especially those pesky 'bible-words'.

I think what people who value 'context' too highly too often do is 'add to' or 'take away' with theological assumptions that often make what scripture says quite different from (even opposite of) what it does say.  They also are more apt to think that the entirety of scripture is full of contradictions because they don't believe the 'declarations' enough to see the greater picture.  It's not that they don't see the trees for the forest...they don't believe the forest is made out of trees, nor that what they are standing next to IS a tree.

Anyway, just a couple of paragraphs to confuse people.