Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jeff]

I've been struggling with something that has been causing me great stress for almost 8 months.  Along the way, I've prayed for death many times, and intermittently begged God to take "my" cup from me.  I've read Ray's paper on prayer many times, and understand that God never changes His mind, and down deep I'm very grateful for that.

1Thessalonians 5 tells us to "...continually pray ye..."

But I think I've not been thinking correctly about that. 

I've prayed for God to take my cup from me, at least a dozen times, every day, for 8 months - continually.

I don't think that's what God is telling us when He says to pray continually.

What I was wondering is if anyone has prayed for something and then stopped praying for it because you realized that it wasn't God's will to answer in the way you hoped?

This thing - it's like a splinter in my flesh - and it torments me. I've woken up in the morning and even before my head is clear I find myself praying.

I don't know if I'm supposed to stop praying or continue endlessly.

[indianabob]

Friend Jeff,

I realize that I do not have a complete answer for you, but I will offer this short verse in hopes that it will get something better started. The apostle Paul provided an example that may be a guide to your prayer. In great sincerity Paul implored the lord three time and his answer was as the scripture states. The purpose of the thorn was to keep Paul humble...
Regards, ole Indiana Bob


2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
 
2Co 12:8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
 
2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
 
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
 

[Jeff]

Friend Jeff,

I realize that I do not have a complete answer for you, but I will offer this short verse in hopes that it will get something better started. The apostle Paul provided an example that may be a guide to your prayer. In great sincerity Paul implored the lord three time and his answer was as the scripture states. The purpose of the thorn was to keep Paul humble...
Regards, ole Indiana Bob


2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
 
2Co 12:8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
 
2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
 
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Thank you Bob.  I often think about Paul, and that's the reason I refer to what I'm experiencing as a thorn, although that's probably presumptuous of me as I don't belong aside Paul. 

I think it's time for me to stop praying for God to answer my prayer and start for something real - God's will in my life.

[Joel]

Hi Jeff,
I'm sure God's will shall be done in your life, as well as all the rest of us.
How would it change things if he told you that you would live another 25 years or even longer?

Joel

[Extol]

Hi Jeff,

The other day I was listening to the 2007 conference and Ray was talking about patience...how we as humans always want to be somewhere we're not, or be in a better situation than we are in. We want to be out of debt NOW, we want to get a raise NOW, we want our children to be well-mannered NOW, rather than working towards these things.

The debt example was a good one for me. I've been able to pay off a good chunk of our debt this year, and I have been looking forward to when it is all paid off. It is a nice goal to have, but the problem is when I think too much about it and plan too far ahead, I get impatient. I just want the debt gone NOW. I may plan to have all my debts paid in, say, 18 months, but the fact is, I have no idea what our situation will be then. I might lose my job, we might have an expensive family emergency, etc. The only thing I can do is take it one day at a time, one week at a time, one month at a time, and pay what God allows me to pay, and thank Him for it...hopefully while learning patience and lessons about financial responsibility.

You mentioned that verse about praying ceaselessly in 1 Thessalonians 5. Have you been doing the two things sandwiched around that? Verse 16: Rejoice evermore. Verse 18: In every thing give thanks.

We always tend to think of thanksgiving as giving thanks for the good things, but we need to give thanks in EVERY thing. I need to thank God for my debts (and other problems), and you need to thank God for the thorn in your side. And in the midst of your suffering, I hope you can Rejoice in the knowledge that it will not always be there. 

Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
  To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
  Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and shield.
  For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name.
  Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

Psalm 33:18-22.

[Rene]

We always tend to think of thanksgiving as giving thanks for the good things, but we need to give thanks in EVERY thing. I need to thank God for my debts (and other problems), and you need to thank God for the thorn in your side. And in the midst of your suffering, I hope you can Rejoice in the knowledge that it will not always be there. 

Excellent reminder Jesse. 

Even in our sufferings and uncomfortable situations, we can benefit spiritually.  We can learn patience, obedience, and ultimately, righteousness.  Keep your eye on the prize.

Heb. 5:8 - "Even though he was a son, yet learned, from what things he suffered, obedience"

[dogcombat]

Jeff,

I related a similar thread a few years back.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3218.0.html

Ches

[Kat]

Hi Jeff, just wanted to mention something that might encourage you. It seems that God in preparing us by bringing us through certain trials that gives us the experience He will need us to have... each one with their own set of difficulties, making us into what He wants us to be. So I think that though you may be experiencing some great difficulty God is certainly with you to get you through it "...God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able..." (1 Cor 10:13). And just think, you will be uniquely qualified to help with that in the next age.

2Cor 4:15  For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.
v. 16  Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
v. 17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal (eonian) weight of glory,
v. 18  while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal (eonian).

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Terry]

Hello Jeff i think Kat is spot on,

Hi Jeff, just wanted to mention something that might encourage you. It seems that God in preparing us by bringing us through certain trials that gives us the experience He will need us to have... each one with their own set of difficulties, making us into what He wants us to be. So I think that though you may be experiencing some great difficulty God is certainly with you to get you through it "...God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able..." (1 Cor 10:13). And just think, you will be uniquely qualified to help with that in the next age

15 years ago because of thyroid problems my body shut down i was so sick i can't tell you, i went from a bull to an old man over night,i would pray for God to take me every night and wake up in the morning and sit on the side of the bed and cry knowing i had to face another day,so after a few yrs. can't really remember how long, i started thinking where the teaching of hell come from and ended up here BT,i read 6 to 8 hrs. a day for months non stop, i think God put me where i needed to be at that time and with all that has happened i'm so thankful now,i'm not the same person i was,i've learned love,i love my wife as i never knew how before,i text my girls often and tell them i love them and to tell my grandboys i love them and to hug them for me,i under stand pain and suffering better now,it breaks my heart to see people hurting now,i feel CJ's pain,Judy's pain, i feel your pain,i pray for Alex,this wasn't me a few yrs. ago,my daughter ask her mom awhile back,whats going on with dad he's never had this kind of affection, she told her hes different now, thank God for that, i've got a long way to go i know, but now i don't want to die,i want to live ,i want to love,to me love is everything,i don't know you or CJ or Judy never met Alex or any one else here,but i can tell you this, i love you all,being sick has helped me to understand others pain and suffering,i'm still sick but not like before, i think it helps keep me humble,i know now i'm where God wants me to be for now,i think most of us are hurting one way or the other, but it will make us strong later,hang in there Brother God will see you through,i know because he said he would,you can take that to the bank.
Terry

[judy]

Jeff, good replys, very good. Slow it way down, way down. it sounds like you are being beat up constantly and i know that feeling. I want so much for everything to be good but that's an illusion. Today i forced and will continue to force myself to believe God is working in all that matters to me. There is no other choice i can make. It helps to believe this and if it doesn't come naturally, swallow it like bad medicine and get through one day at a time. When you panic it is worse, pain, suffering, sadness. Easy does it and believe for the good eventually. It will come, maybe just in little ways but it is there.  I feel your distress as if it was mine. You are loved even though it doesn't look like love. Be brave and when you can't holler at us!!! judy

[Dave in Tenn]

Thanks for that, Terry. 

[Jeff]

How would it change things if he told you that you would live another 25 years or even longer?

*sigh*

[Jeff]

You mentioned that verse about praying ceaselessly in 1 Thessalonians 5. Have you been doing the two things sandwiched around that? Verse 16: Rejoice evermore. Verse 18: In every thing give thanks.

I have been.  I know what to do, how to do it, why I need to do it.

There are some in society who are incapable of "doing" what they know is right or really, anything, even normally.  Mental illness is a "fault" in brain chemistry.  For example, we're told that not being anxious is how we should live.  I have an anxiety disorder that makes it difficult to be obedient in that way.  I try but normally it's just not possible.  I was born this way, and have been this way since childhood.  I also have a genetic predisposition to severe depression.  Depression isn't sadness, but it can include that - for me - sorrowful to the point of death would probably be more accurate.  Depression has such a profound effect on me that I'm not able to function at any reasonable level in most situations without being heavily medicated.  Both the depression and the medication limit my ability to think the way I would like to.

Depression effects how we view the world, circumstances, relationships (including with God) and how we handle those things.  Much of what we're told to do in the Scriptures is often beyond my capacity.  God knows this and I hope that He still sees me as I'd like to be, but there's nothing more I can do about any of this, other than to simply pray for His will.

God is in control.  If I needed anything that I don't have God would give it to me.  I've been able to get to a place where the only thing I pray is for God's will in my life.

It isn't a matter of impatience, or disobedience, or a lack of understanding.  It's different than having cancer, or some other horrible illness, although cancer is far more catastrophic, but because the mental illness affects how I think and act, it impacts every single moment of every day, and it's been this way my entire life - a long, long time.

There have been many days in my life where I've woken up wishing I hadn't, but it's not "me" that feels that way, it's my faulty brain chemistry, with misfiring neurons due to a lack of serotonin and dopamine, that make it almost impossible to think and act rationally, and normally.  I thank God that it isn't worse - it certainly could be.  But no matter how much I know, and understand and how hard I try to live that - the depression makes it mostly impossible. 

I don't know if it's better or worse that I'm so aware of it.

I can't help that I'd rather not be here.  Only God can change that.

I wish there was a way for me to really show how much I appreciate all of you.  I guess the most damaging thing about all of this is that it's difficult for people to be around me.  You are literally the only mortals in my life right now and you're a lifeline.

[lilitalienboi16]

Jeff, none of us by our own power can do what is commanded of us. We are marred in the hand's of The Potter, His workmanship, created with weak hearts and carnal minds, subject to moral futility not willingly but by reason of Him. Its a very slow painful process. Jesus said, Eonian life was coming to know the true God. If it takes an aion of time just to know, how much longer then to act upon that knowledge? It seems knowing is the easy step (and i'm sure there is much more to know), obeying is the hard part.

We are no different than the discples and the apostles. We are where they were.

Mark 10:26-28
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Matthew 19:25-27
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

So we wait. Wait for God. What more can men do?

God bless,
Alex

[judy]

Jeff, now I know what you are talking about. This I do understand. I have been diagnosed everything imaginable from Bi-polar to schizophrenic to biologically depressed to mania, I mean you name it. I think I am finally after 40 yrs down to anxiety and some depression. I think mine started because once I drowned, once in a coma and once fell 2 stories from an upstairs apt. building and fractured my skull. Why I lived, I'll never know. But listen there are days when I could only put one foot in front of another and keep going because I had 4 children. I was full of dread at times but besides medicine the one thing I practiced was dissasociating myself from the illness. This took yrs of practice. In a few words, step back and look at it (the crap going on in your head) see it for what it is worth. Ok, today I have unrelenting fear, ok, but that is not me, there is another voice, you have to learn to hear it because it is from God. That something in you that says, "yes, it is there but THIS IS NOT YOU. It is a sympton, reduce it down. This symptom will pass one day if you overlay it with God's word. Some days all I could say to myself is, "God is good, a hundred times, over and over. This is not from God, it is evil and wants to destroy you. Do something that distracts you, do dishes, vacuum, walk anything to get that serotonin working. Just get up and keep going and one day along with your meds it will get better and these meds have to be continually changed, modified, etc. Please believe me because God is no respecter of person and if he can walk besides me through all this bs, he will be with you too. I will pray everyday for you, I promise. I feel you, I understand and please, please, don't give up, fight the darn fight you were allowed to have.  My grandson shot himself in the head 2 yrs ago, my mother tried suicide, my uncle killed himself, my family were alchoholics, my other uncle was a murderer. I have seen a lot of crap but you can win with God. I love you like a brother in an illness not many understand. judy

[Rhys 🕊]

Jeff, now I know what you are talking about. This I do understand. I have been diagnosed everything imaginable from Bi-polar to schizophrenic to biologically depressed to mania, I mean you name it. I think I am finally after 40 yrs down to anxiety and some depression. I think mine started because once I drowned, once in a coma and once fell 2 stories from an upstairs apt. building and fractured my skull. Why I lived, I'll never know. But listen there are days when I could only put one foot in front of another and keep going because I had 4 children. I was full of dread at times but besides medicine the one thing I practiced was dissasociating myself from the illness. This took yrs of practice. In a few words, step back and look at it (the crap going on in your head) see it for what it is worth. Ok, today I have unrelenting fear, ok, but that is not me, there is another voice, you have to learn to hear it because it is from God. That something in you that says, "yes, it is there but THIS IS NOT YOU. It is a sympton, reduce it down. This symptom will pass one day if you overlay it with God's word. Some days all I could say to myself is, "God is good, a hundred times, over and over. This is not from God, it is evil and wants to destroy you. Do something that distracts you, do dishes, vacuum, walk anything to get that serotonin working. Just get up and keep going and one day along with your meds it will get better and these meds have to be continually changed, modified, etc. Please believe me because God is no respecter of person and if he can walk besides me through all this bs, he will be with you too. I will pray everyday for you, I promise. I feel you, I understand and please, please, don't give up, fight the darn fight you were allowed to have.  My grandson shot himself in the head 2 yrs ago, my mother tried suicide, my uncle killed himself, my family were alchoholics, my other uncle was a murderer. I have seen a lot of crap but you can win with God. I love you like a brother in an illness not many understand. judy

So much to go through, glad you are here and discovering more truth, it brings peace in the storm


Rhys

[Rhys 🕊]

Some good advice on prayer here

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3367.msg25044.html#msg25044

If you think that you must be in a literal closet, on your literal knees, or you can't pray, what would you do if you were drowning in the middle of the ocean?  You can pray on your knees, in a closet (although I know of no one who prays in a closet), in any room of the house, in your car, at work, and while you are going to sleep in your bed. I pray all day long as need or inspiration arises. I pray about everything. I thank God for everything. I ask God to bless everyone who comes to our forum, etc.  Don't pray by the clock!  Pray according to what is needful to pray about WHEN it is needful to pray about it.

[Jeff]

Jeff, none of us by our own power can do what is commanded of us. We are marred in the hand's of The Potter, His workmanship, created with weak hearts and carnal minds, subject to moral futility not willingly but by reason of Him. Its a very slow painful process. Jesus said, Eonian life was coming to know the true God. If it takes an aion of time just to know, how much longer then to act upon that knowledge? It seems knowing is the easy step (and i'm sure there is much more to know), obeying is the hard part.

We are no different than the discples and the apostles. We are where they were.

Mark 10:26-28
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Matthew 19:25-27
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

So we wait. Wait for God. What more can men do?

God bless,
Alex

Alex,

This is essentially what I was trying to express.  Even more than that we're rarely seen by others for who we really are - as God knows us.  Especially in this medium.  That's not a bad thing if compassion is there, as it is, and has been, always, here. 

God made each of us uniquely.  His word applies to all of mankind perfectly, but each of us will receive something different from God, for that reason.  What I mean by that is that in our uniqueness we'll feel the expression of the Word differently.  It's the same message, every Scripture is Truth, and while the meaning never changes, we may have strengths and weaknesses in different places, as God chooses, and the Scriptures touch each of us in different ways.

Psalm 139:14 "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well."

1Cor 12:26 "And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it."

I really just wanted you to know that in my patience, there is impatience, in my belief, there is doubt, in my devotion, there is selfishness...

None of these things take away from me the understanding I've been given by God in Ray's teaching.

In Christ,
Jeff

[Jeff]

Hi Jeff, just wanted to mention something that might encourage you. It seems that God in preparing us by bringing us through certain trials that gives us the experience He will need us to have... each one with their own set of difficulties, making us into what He wants us to be.

2Cor 4:15  For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.
v. 16  Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
v. 17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal (eonian) weight of glory,
v. 18  while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal (eonian).

Kat,

This is what keeps my boat from capsizing.

[Jeff]

2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
 
2Co 12:8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
 
2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
 
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Some days this is all I have and it's always more than enough.

John 1:16 "And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."