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Prayer
Kat:
--- Quote from: Jeff on December 24, 2015, 06:13:31 PM ---Kat,
Yes, that's perfect. If nothing we do is of our own will, then obviously prayer has to fall in under that too. God tells us to pray.
When I read what you posted of Ray's teaching I found something that's never crossed my mind before:
Jesus prayed to His Father to take away what Jesus knew was coming. It would seem that God wanted Jesus to pray for God to change His mind and allow Jesus to avoid the suffering He knew He faced. I've always - only - thought that it was the human weakness in Jesus that caused Him to ask for something He knew He would never receive. He had to have known that God never changes His mind but He prayed for it anyway. It had to have been for our benefit that He did that.
Psalm 25:4 "Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths"
It may be that Jesus' humanity had a part in what He was asking for, I would think He was afraid, but in the end it was God who drew Jesus to pray for it anyway.
Thanks Kat.
--- End quote ---
Jeff, I think His prayers in the garden was for the very reason you stated, "for our benefit." If Jesus had not made that request that showed that the crucifixion was going to be a horrible ordeal for Him, that He knew His suffering would be excruciating, then I feel certain there would be people who would say that what He went through was no big deal for God in the flesh. But we have proof right from Him, He was so nervous that He was sweating profusely and we have His prayers in the garden that He knew it would be so hard that He even asked "if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me" (Matt 26:39).
Yes the Father caused this to happen, so we would know with absolute certainty, and so that no person could ever say, 'well God does not suffer like regular people do.' We know His flesh suffered just like ours, we know He went through all that He did because He wanted us to know just how far our God would go for us... suffer just as much as any of us has and to the point His body actually died! And not a fast easy death either, but a slow tortuous one... but He willingly went through it for us!
Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone to heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us live our lives consistent with our confession of faith.
v. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. Instead, we have one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet he never sinned. (ISV)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
judy:
Hi Jeff, haven't been on here for awhile, thinking of you and refreshing my memory of what's been going on. As I was reading over this thread something came to mind. God doesn't change nor does He change His mind BUT He has HELD OFF for awhile until he gets us in the correct frame of mind and His timing for what it is we are to do or die trying to figure it all out, nothing is forever, maybe heaven. Remember when the people asked Jesus, "why only one wife NOW when all along men were able to have more than one" this is not verbatim by the way. I can't find my way around a chicken coop but I seem to remember all that I have read. ANYWAY, Jesus answered, YOU WERE NOT ABLE TO ACCEPT IT THEN. So, I figure there is a time for healing and suffering and joy and sadness but all in His time. The trick (of the mind) is to believe nothing and i mean nothing lasts in this world, maybe those taxes and death but there is hope. What would you do with clarity and peace all the time? I mean at this time, believe me, this would really blow your mind unless you have studied and learned here what to do with it. Suffering is like schooltime, some of us graduate before death and see clearly (sort of) but without the knowledge of God you would most likely screw it up. I did!!! Got God, found peace and joy, screwed it up royally, suffered, died so many times figuratively, etc. Just thinking of you. judy
Jeff:
--- Quote from: judy on February 10, 2016, 10:51:49 PM ---Hi Jeff, haven't been on here for awhile, thinking of you and refreshing my memory of what's been going on. As I was reading over this thread something came to mind. God doesn't change nor does He change His mind BUT He has HELD OFF for awhile until he gets us in the correct frame of mind and His timing for what it is we are to do or die trying to figure it all out, nothing is forever, maybe heaven. Remember when the people asked Jesus, "why only one wife NOW when all along men were able to have more than one" this is not verbatim by the way. I can't find my way around a chicken coop but I seem to remember all that I have read. ANYWAY, Jesus answered, YOU WERE NOT ABLE TO ACCEPT IT THEN. So, I figure there is a time for healing and suffering and joy and sadness but all in His time. The trick (of the mind) is to believe nothing and i mean nothing lasts in this world, maybe those taxes and death but there is hope. What would you do with clarity and peace all the time? I mean at this time, believe me, this would really blow your mind unless you have studied and learned here what to do with it. Suffering is like schooltime, some of us graduate before death and see clearly (sort of) but without the knowledge of God you would most likely screw it up. I did!!! Got God, found peace and joy, screwed it up royally, suffered, died so many times figuratively, etc. Just thinking of you. judy
--- End quote ---
Judy,
Thank you for writing this. The timing was impeccable, which causes me to consider that God was involved. It seems silly to say that because God is always involved, but when you wrote this, at that moment in time, it was perfect, and had special meaning to me. :)
Jeff
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