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"So - Is there any difference?"

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Joel:
The scriptures are abundantly clear as to how we should conduct ourselves as a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Many of those scriptures are brought to our attention here.
The way I see it there is a big difference in being a doer of the Word, and being hearers only.

James 1:22-But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Joel

judy:
To all, i have to be perfectly honest with you because that's who I am. My son (at a party) was speaking to a sister of a old high school buddy and the older man with her who, by the way, had a track record a mile long took umbrage and was jealous. At this time my son had only a speeding ticket on his record and also an article in the paper where he captured 2 guys stealing from the park across the way. He held one down at gunpoint and the other ran away. He did not try to shoot the runner.
The older man and his girlfriend were found to be high on crack, the man started to get nasty, my son left immediately for his truck but the man caught him and took him down, the girl appeared and both were kicking him in the head and beating him. My son felt himself go in and out of consciousness and thought , "who would raise my son if i died". He had raised him from  a baby by himself, the mother was mostly absent  .At that point he shot the man, the man died. This was all caught on video and my son was released without even bond. This subject is too close to home and not far away in time yet. My son went onto a terrible depression questioning over and over whether he could have done something different. He wishes it never happened and he really hasn't been the same since. And if you want justice how about this, one year later his son who had Auspergers shot himself in the head and died. Was this the vengeance of God? I do not know. Looking back my grandson would have gone with his mother which is what the child always wanted, his mother. I;ll never understand. maybe you can see the dilemna. Perhaps it would have been better, I surely couldn't choose. judy

lareli:
Judy. That's a tragic situation.. Wow. So sorry.

lauriellen:
Judy I am so sorry. That is exactly why I have said that not all killing is murder. And it is ESPECIALLY NOT as someone wrote above, most people are NOT out looking for any excuse to "kill someone for any reason".....most, including myself, would rather be left alone, we seek peace earnestly, we pray to be delivered from evil, we pray that we would never be forced to use force to defend ourselves or our family, but sometimes, life just puts you in a corner that way. Your son did not go looking for trouble. He sought the way of peace and tried to leave. How could anyone find fault with a person only trying to defend themselves, not because they wanted to or was looking for any excuse to kill some, simply trying to live peaceable among others as much as it depended upon him, but they would not let him alone. I can not find where Jesus told the soldier that he was a murderer and must change professions. He said He didn't see anyone with as much faith as the soldier had. With the line of reasoning above, you are saying that our PEACE officers and military are MURDERERS, not peacekeepers or protectors who only KILL when the evil people FORCE them to, but make it sound like they are looking for any excuse to murder someone. I just don't know about that .... all I know to say is God's will be done.

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: lauriellen on December 01, 2015, 02:28:38 PM ---Judy I am so sorry. That is exactly why I have said that not all killing is murder. And it is ESPECIALLY NOT as someone wrote above, most people are NOT out looking for any excuse to "kill someone for any reason".....most, including myself, would rather be left alone, we seek peace earnestly, we pray to be delivered from evil, we pray that we would never be forced to use force to defend ourselves or our family, but sometimes, life just puts you in a corner that way. Your son did not go looking for trouble. He sought the way of peace and tried to leave. How could anyone find fault with a person only trying to defend themselves, not because they wanted to or was looking for any excuse to kill some, simply trying to live peaceable among others as much as it depended upon him, but they would not let him alone. I can not find where Jesus told the soldier that he was a murderer and must change professions. He said He didn't see anyone with as much faith as the soldier had. With the line of reasoning above, you are saying that our PEACE officers and military are MURDERERS, not peacekeepers or protectors who only KILL when the evil people FORCE them to, but make it sound like they are looking for any excuse to murder someone. I just don't know about that .... all I know to say is God's will be done.

--- End quote ---

Lauri,

You are correct that I should not have stated all killing of persons is murder because murder is defined as pre-meditated unlawful act of killing another person. I was careless and did not pay attention to the unlawful and premeditated part of the definition I used. I was wrong on that.

My incorrect understanding of the English word though does not change what we are being taught in scripture is the proper way to behave towards those who would seek us harm. Jesus IS our example. We are to be like Him! The apostles left an example as well. None returned violence for violence, an eye for an eye. That is what Jesus preached against! While Jesus did not say anything to that particular soldier about his current vocation, He also did not say it was okay to kill in self defense.  Countless scriptures presented in this thread testify to the complete opposite of what you are saying. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established because no verse is becoming its own interpretation. It appears you are disregarding these witnesses presented and even pitting them against a single verse (Luke 3:14) which neither argues for nor against your point (that is; killing in self defense is okay).

Jesus said if you cannot deny yourself then you are not worthy of me. The calling is very high and while I can speak to no one's particular circumstance, I can speak to what I know is testified to plainly in our faces.

You cannot turn and give the other cheek whilst also killing to defend it (your other cheek). You can't love your enemies and also kill them. You can't 'put your sword in its place' while also using it to kill.

God's spiritual calling is a high one and its not for everyone. Many of Christ's own disciples turned and followed Him no more because what He was teaching was too heavy for them.

I don't know how I would react in an unfortunate situation as Judy's son found himself in but as ray said,

"The shame is that many people who have used alternative measures to God's ways, and have failed in so doing, will never know how things would have been different had they just trusted God in the first place.  It is oh so true, that "we learn obedience by the things WE SUFFER.""

I too, like you, pray the Lord keep me from such an evil day as judy's son experienced.

In the end, all I know is what God's spirit tells me is right by His Word and I hope and pray that by His grace and mercy I will do the right and good thing all my life that I may know Him more and become more like Him.

I will say nothing more on the matter.

God be with you,
Alex

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