> General Discussions
"So - Is there any difference?"
lareli:
Wait... So killing is bad. Unless I'm wearing an official uniform with a shiny badge? As long as there's some writing on a piece of paper somewhere and we call it "law" then it's ok? Kinda like magic.. Killing is wrong unless you have a magic uniform and use the magic word "law".
Law enforcement killed Christ.
Kat:
There is the way of the world/age that is according to the ruler of it - Satan... we, only a very few must stand apart from that way.
1John 5:18 We know that the person who has been born (begotten) from God does not go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one cannot harm them.
v. 19 We know that we are from God and that the whole world lies under the control of the evil one. (ISV)
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
v. 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
lauriellen, it is your choice to believe and live as you so desire... you believe, according to the law of the land, that you can kill somebody to defend yourself or family - maybe so, but God says "do NOT resist evil." There is the ways of the world and then there is the ways of God and there is a huge difference between the two... to kill or not to kill is one of these differences. Either you are carnal minded - worldly or spiritual minded.
James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
You can decide whatever you want to on this... but trying to make a stand on this here? You should not think it strange that you are being opposed here.
Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lauriellen:
Kat, I truly would never want to hurt anyone. I hope and pray that I am never in that situation. I hope and pray to do only what is right and pleasing to God if I am. I try to make sense of scripture as best I can with the limited understanding that God has given me. I also would never judge anyone or think myself more righteous than someone who has been led to defend themselves. You said that it is MY choice to believe and live as I desire.....If I understand Ray's teaching correctly, I can only choose the ONE POSSIBLE choice that God has already determined for me to make, as I understand that He is in control of every circumstance that influences my every belief and choice.
If I am lucky enough to be counted among the few (and I would never be so bold as to assume that I am one of the 'we'), God will see to it that I do the right thing. If I am not, then no amount of effort and scripture reading will give me the ability to do the right thing. Either way, my life is His, and I am at peace with that. God help us all.
Kat:
In discussing these things it does get personal when we bring our feelings into it, you have stated your opinion and I have stated mine, that is the discussion. But do not think that I'm personally judging you on this, this is about what I'm seeing in the Scripture and how to obey what God is teaching us.
Yes we are making choices by what our understanding is on a matter and WE will be help accountable for those choices. God is ultimately responsible for making things as they are, but we will give account, because we think and reason and choose what we want or think is right.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm -------------
For if God is in control of everything, and He has done everything "according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His Will" - then how can we be held accountable for the things that we "do"?
Respectfully,
Chris
[Ray Replies]
Dear Chris:
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
God be with you,
Ray
Jeff:
--- Quote from: judy on December 01, 2015, 12:40:38 PM ---To all, i have to be perfectly honest with you because that's who I am. My son (at a party) was speaking to a sister of a old high school buddy and the older man with her who, by the way, had a track record a mile long took umbrage and was jealous. At this time my son had only a speeding ticket on his record and also an article in the paper where he captured 2 guys stealing from the park across the way. He held one down at gunpoint and the other ran away. He did not try to shoot the runner.
The older man and his girlfriend were found to be high on crack, the man started to get nasty, my son left immediately for his truck but the man caught him and took him down, the girl appeared and both were kicking him in the head and beating him. My son felt himself go in and out of consciousness and thought , "who would raise my son if i died". He had raised him from a baby by himself, the mother was mostly absent .At that point he shot the man, the man died. This was all caught on video and my son was released without even bond. This subject is too close to home and not far away in time yet. My son went onto a terrible depression questioning over and over whether he could have done something different. He wishes it never happened and he really hasn't been the same since. And if you want justice how about this, one year later his son who had Auspergers shot himself in the head and died. Was this the vengeance of God? I do not know. Looking back my grandson would have gone with his mother which is what the child always wanted, his mother. I;ll never understand. maybe you can see the dilemna. Perhaps it would have been better, I surely couldn't choose. judy
--- End quote ---
Judy,
I'm devastated by what you, your son, and grandson experienced. This is nothing but a tragedy. It isn't Gods vengeance - God is love. This is a trial and if nothing else it makes me realize how trivial my own trials are. My heart, thoughts, and prayers are with you.
I pray for peace for you and your son.
Jeff
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