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Author Topic: "So - Is there any difference?"  (Read 30247 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2015, 10:32:10 PM »

True enough, Jeff...and one failing is not the end of life for everyone.  He is reconciling ALL THINGS unto Himself and has GIVEN TO US the ministry of reconciliation.  Who's "US"?  Those who have done what He says. 

But ONE DAY the world will be judged and ruled by those who have not said unto Him "Lord, Lord" but have done the things He said.  No more scattered 'inspiring moral examples' giving courage to a few, but those who will have 'received the promise', having "endured to the end", ruling and reigning with Christ. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Jeff

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2015, 11:30:58 PM »

True enough, Jeff...and one failing is not the end of life for everyone.  He is reconciling ALL THINGS unto Himself and has GIVEN TO US the ministry of reconciliation.  Who's "US"?  Those who have done what He says. 

But ONE DAY the world will be judged and ruled by those who have not said unto Him "Lord, Lord" but have done the things He said.  No more scattered 'inspiring moral examples' giving courage to a few, but those who will have 'received the promise', having "endured to the end", ruling and reigning with Christ.

Dave,

Exactly! :)
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indianabob

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2015, 03:35:20 AM »

All helpful comments that help us to grow in grace and knowledge.

I hope we all can realize that God can and does forgive every sin; no exceptions.

Therefore in many cases the most difficult thing to grasp is to be able to forgive ourselves: even 70 times 7. (matthew 18:21-22
Consider what the apostle Saul/Paul had to live with from his past and how God was able to use him.

Maybe forgiving ourselves is the hardest part of the repentance program to come to terms with. Mostly because we find it so hard to forgive others the terrible things they have done against ourselves or against humanity.

1 Cor 10:13
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

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lauriellen

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2015, 09:49:07 AM »

I thought this quote from a friend was worth sharing for your consideration:

"I'm going to take another shot at this, so that I can make myself clear....and because I love my pacifist brothers and sisters dearly.
If an attacker is threatening the life of my wife, I will do what I must to stop him, using the least amount of force necessary, and thinking of him as if he were my own *son, whom I love.
I believe that the use of force is sinful, but not as sinful as it would be to become an accomplice to the murder of my wife by my passivity.
I am not justifying the use of force. I'm saying, when all the options are bad, pick the one that is the least bad. This does not therefore make the option good. It remains bad. Just not as bad as the others."-Daniel Skillman

.....just thought it was worth considering. And again, this doesn't change the fact that I think it's wrong. I just don't think it's *as wrong as the other alternatives.
lauriellen
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 09:57:59 AM by lauriellen »
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Extol

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2015, 11:47:24 AM »

I thought this quote from a friend was worth sharing for your consideration:

"I'm going to take another shot at this, so that I can make myself clear....and because I love my pacifist brothers and sisters dearly.
If an attacker is threatening the life of my wife, I will do what I must to stop him, using the least amount of force necessary, and thinking of him as if he were my own *son, whom I love.
I believe that the use of force is sinful, but not as sinful as it would be to become an accomplice to the murder of my wife by my passivity.
I am not justifying the use of force. I'm saying, when all the options are bad, pick the one that is the least bad. This does not therefore make the option good. It remains bad. Just not as bad as the others."-Daniel Skillman

.....just thought it was worth considering. And again, this doesn't change the fact that I think it's wrong. I just don't think it's *as wrong as the other alternatives.
lauriellen

This sounds pretty reasonable to me, but as others have pointed out, we can't really plan what we would do, or know for sure what we would do. But God does know, and that's the important thing. Therefore I hope I would spend less time fretting over how much force I'd use to protect my wife, and more time asking God to lead me in the paths of righteousness.
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Mike Gagne

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #65 on: December 05, 2015, 03:54:19 PM »

   Just a thought...
 
  Genesis 6:5   (KJV)

5  And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
 
  Mat 15:19  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

  Mark 7:21-23   (KJV)

21  For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22  Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23  All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

  Even thinking on those things is evil, Oh who will save me from the wretched man that I am? Thanks be to God that when his righteous judgements are in the earth the inhabitants will learn righteousness!!!

Father open the eyes and ears of our hearts and anoint our understanding that we may behold thy Glory and by beholding your Glory we may be changed in to your imagine, In Jesus Name
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 05:26:32 PM by Michael G »
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arion

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2015, 08:03:08 AM »

Here is what it all boils down to for me.  We're all trying to walk this walk but our life experiences are so different that we see things through different glasses.  If one has lived in urban or suburban areas all their lives the only thing they hear about guns is negative.  The daily parade of carnage goes on and on and more and more [especially young people] are slaughtered.  However, if you lived and were brought up in a rural area your outlook would be quite a bit different.

Take the following items.  A gun, axe, chain saw, knife, crowbar, socket wrench and screw driver.  What do all of these have in common?  They are all tools which can be used for good or evil.  A inanimate tool in and of itself is amoral.  It is neither good or evil but can be used for good or evil.  Some will disagree with that statement.  Some would say well yes, I understand that an axe can be used to cut firewood but also hurt someone.  A knife can be used to cut trim or cut my meat but can also be used for evil.  I know what crowbars, socket wrenches and screw drivers are used for and I suppose they could also be used to maim so I can see that all these have potential for good and evil but you've lost me with a gun.  How can a gun be used for good?

Well, if your rural you would understand that the gun can be used to feed my family and put food on the table.  Most of you eat meat.  Somebody has to kill and butcher that cow or pig you consume.  You might keep your hands clean but somebody has to do it for you.  A gun can also be used to protect my livestock or pets from wolves or coyotes or to scare a bear away in the middle of the night.  There are also those who do use them for sporting purposes and enjoy skeet shooting.  My older brother has told me the story before how he was on the high school skeet team and would walk into his school with his shotgun and put it in his unlocked locker during class.  Other times he would leave it in his car.  Nobody had to worry about school place violence and the worse it got back then was the very rare after school fight by a couple of boys trying to prove how tough they were.  And although the media is loath to report it there are also times that firearms have prevented violence by being a deterrent to evil.  To me with my life experiences it's a simple tool and one that I have never used for evil.  I own several firearms but I think I've only opened my gun locker up once this year several months ago to make sure they were oiled.

I've touched on before the opinion that many have that having a firearm is showing a lack of faith in God's provision for your safety.  By the same token many of the same see nothing wrong with having health insurance, a pension plan, a savings account, various stock investments, ect.  They have no problem with going to a doctor when they are sick, ect.  When questioned about it they would simply reply that having these things are simply prudent and being a good steward.  They would say that God can heal supernaturally but that he can also choose to use a doctor, medicines or even have the body heal itself naturally.  They might also say that God expects them to do what they can with what they've been entrusted with and that is simply a part of walking out your faith and not remaining static.  One can have all the faith in the world but God still expects you to work as well.  Faith and works goes together...they are not mutually exclusive. 

I am able to respect the opinions of those that feel that having a firearm is a lack of faith in God's provision if they also are willing to eschew the insurance, pensions, savings accounts, doctors visits, medicines, ect.  At least with that one would be consistent in the approach.  Like with just about everything in the Christian walk it comes down to the heart and motivations, and that is something that I am not qualified to judge someone else on.  Indeed at times I don't even know my own heart and motivations.  It is very possible for someone to be moved totally out of fear of the future and as an outworking of that fear they acquire guns, gold, money, various insurances and investments as well as running to the doctor every time they have a sniffle.  On the other hand it's also possible for someone to have a firearm, perhaps a bank account and a few investments, maybe some insurance and see a doctor occasionally but yet do so in complete faith in God's provision for you.  If having access to any of these things to you shows a lack of faith then for you it is a lack of faith.  To our own master we stand or we fall.  And thank God he is able to make us stand!

Blessings to all.....
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Doug

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2015, 10:29:24 AM »

Hi Arion,

I understand what you are saying and think you make very good points to consider. However, I do not see how you can compare insurance, stocks, gold, bank accounts, doctors etc. to the use of guns. Everything you listed does no harm to another person only a gun has that potential. I have not problem with gun ownership for a number of reason you cited, however I do not believe we should harm another individual using a firearm. When God brought me to the understanding of bible truths one of the first things I did was sell my gun. It was only for protection. It was something that to me did not need much thought or what if's.
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lauriellen

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2015, 12:11:38 PM »

Last night about 3 am, the local band of coyotes moved in within 100 yards of our house, yelping, howling and raising cain. They snatch a few chickens a year from us. Our dogs naturally went crazy barking and soon every neighbor dog in earshot was too. I opened my window and hollered, whistled and tried to scare them away and quiet the dogs. No success. I finally got my .22 pistol and walked out on my back porch and fired off a couple of shots into the air. Silence. I couldn't help but think how this could be a parable for this discussion.
lauriellen
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Mike Gagne

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2015, 02:39:12 PM »

Guns don't murder, murder comes from the heart. And how do I know? because I turned and I saw, and what did I see? I seen that I don't murder as much as I used to...
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arion

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2015, 03:13:49 PM »

Hi Arion,

I understand what you are saying and think you make very good points to consider. However, I do not see how you can compare insurance, stocks, gold, bank accounts, doctors etc. to the use of guns.


Doug;

I was really comparing a gun, axe, chain saw, knife, crowbar, socket wrench and screw driver being tools all of which can be used for positive purposes or negative.  The part about the firearm along with insurance, ect as people were making the point that if you had a firearm that you were not trusting in God's provision but instead trusting in the firearm.  The point I was making with that is if by owning a firearm is evidence of not trusting in God's provision then someone having insurance, savings, ect could also be compared with not trusting God and trying to do for yourself. 

All of these things are heart issues.  I could hear about the terrorist attack in California and out of fear go and buy a gun.  I could also keep cash, store food, have investments also out of fear of poverty.  In these ways I would not be trusting in God's provision.  And yet someone else could have all of these things and not be trusting in any of them.  What would be key for me is asking myself if anything I own gives me peace of mind.  If having a gun in the closet gives me peace than that right there is evidence of not trusting in God. 

 As I stated previously with my life experiences and where I live a guy walking into the diner with a revolver on his hip wouldn't even warrant notice whereas in many areas of the country they would be running out of the restaurant in fear and the cops would have you on your face on the cement.  To me it's a tool like a hammer or screwdriver.  To you it was an instrument of murder and you felt that you had to sell yours.  My conscience is clean and yours is as well.  This will be my last comment on the issue.  These are one of those things that nobody is going to change anyone else's mind and we probably shouldn't try.

God bless!!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 03:16:05 PM by Arion »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2015, 04:21:13 PM »

Hello Arion,

I said I would no longer comment on this issue but I feel there is some confusion taking place that needs to be pointed out.

I am of the same mindset as Doug.

Surprised with the comparison.

A doctor attempts to heal while killing a person in self defense does harm to another which we are told by God not to do.

Seeing a doctor, having insurance, etc... to me is more like 'tempt not the Lord (Luke 4:15, Matt. 4:7).' When you're really sick but refuse to see a doctor because 'God will heal me' then I see it as tempting Him. Yes God can and may 'heal you' but you don't know how He will so go to the doctor and don't tempt Him!

Owning a fire arm is not the problem just like owning a screw driver is not the problem. Killing  animals for food , that too is not the problem, its doing harm to another man, your neighbor that is problematic if we are to try and follow after Christ.

" That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Phil 2:15).

God be with you,
Alex

Edit: Changed my post a bit to reflect better my intent.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 09:23:44 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

indianabob

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2015, 08:54:18 PM »

Hello again folks,

No argument for or against other opinions. Just a true story...

I began to have a serious interest in obeying God in the 1960's while employed as a City Police Officer.
I worked patrol in a City of 10,000 close to Gary, Indiana and we had just about the normal amount of crime of various types. Of course I was armed.

When I finally decided to take the admonition to do no harm seriously I thought to perhaps continue my employment while carrying my .357 Magnum WITHOUT any ammo in the chambers. No one would know unless I was confronted in an exchange of gunfire and then the true facts would be obvious.

So what could I say then? Oh, sorry, I had just cleaned my revolver and forgot to reload it.
Well that idea wasn't going to fly so I had to find other work. It took a few months and I resigned and went to work for Prudential Life Insurance company. Some contrast, right?

The final point for me was that the other officers on the police force fully expected me to be able to use my revolver to protect them if the need arose. I certainly couldn't do that if my gun was empty. So even if I was willing to put my own life at risk and trust God to guide my destiny, it would have been wrong to lie to the other police officers by pretending that I was fully prepared both morally and practically to perform my duties according to my oath of office.

Finally, I am fully persuaded that had I taken a human life in the performance of my lawful duties, I would have been readily forgiven by God upon sincere repentance at some future date when my mind was clear on the fact that for me taking a life was an error. It was an error because God would have and was I believe already working with me toward that end result.

One other similar point I would offer for consideration.
It is not a sin for a human life to be taken by another human being. Not if God instructs that it be done.
It all depends upon the attitude of the person who takes that life. If we believe that it is sin then for us it is a sin and we should not have gone against our own conscience.

Of course for those on the forum this is all colored by the understanding that we have that God guides our destiny whether or not we are aware of His providence.

If any would like to clear up that last statement please do.

Indiana Bob
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Kat

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2015, 01:07:11 PM »

Rom 12:2  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

We should realize that we are among a VERY FEW who are being transformed into the spiritual image of the Savior Jesus Christ and in so being there is no place for human reasonings, we are to have the mind of Christ.

1Pe 2:21  For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
v. 22  “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;
v. 23  who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously;

There is only ONE Lord, ONE body, ONE faith, ONE truth, and ONE unity that we are being transformed into from our carnal worldly ways and ideas, into HIS way of a perfect bond of peace and love.

Eph 4:3  Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
v. 4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
v. 5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
v. 6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

John 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

This truth is not open to our human reasoning, it is according to the Spirit and truth, and Christ gave us explicit directions that we have recorded for us to learn from.

John 6:63  “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Joel

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2015, 02:41:30 PM »

Something that came to mind is this;
Back when God was dealing mainly with Israel, or the Jews, he expected them to follow the laws and regulations that he provided by Moses. Every man was to live at peace with his brother, fighting Israel's enemies as God so directed. There where some born in Israel that were spiritually enlightened, but most were not and rebelled against God's ways.
When salvation came through The Lord Jesus Christ, and he was rejected by the Jews, God turned to all men, or the Gentiles that had previously been rejected.
Today there are a few that can accept the spiritual laws that Jesus set forth in the New Testament, but in essence the vast majority of the Gentiles are blind to God's ways in the same manner as the Jews that Moses lead in his day.
The battle today is a spiritual battle, not fought with the carnal weapons and inventions of men.

Joel

« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 04:09:23 PM by Joel »
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Rene

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2015, 06:37:49 PM »


This truth is not open to our human reasoning, it is according to the Spirit and truth, and Christ gave us explicit directions that we have recorded for us to learn from.


Yes, human reasoning can become a "stumbling" block when we fail to trust and believe God's word. 

Prov 3:5-7 - "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.  In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil."

John 16:1 - "These things have I spoken unto you, that ye may not be caused to stumble."
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Colin

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2015, 04:08:10 AM »

Hello Everybody

I have followed this thread right from the start; it began with reference to the very last part of Ray’s bible study in Mobile http://bible-truths.com/audio/9-3-06MobileConf.7.mp3 .
 On inspection, the study concluded with Ray making reference to the Sermon on the Mount and addressing the sub-topic of becoming angry to the point of harbouring murderous thoughts.  Even though a person might not actually commit murder, nevertheless Jesus classifies that as breaking the commandment spiritually. 

Quoting Ray, “if you want to know how you’re supposed to live, read the sermon on the mount, if you’re going to do the will of God”.   

After outlining the “stages of anger leading to murder”, Ray went on to say we “try to cheat God”.   Mentioning that a person might never think to have a gun [and think] that if an enemy approached he would NEVER shoot them….however he does have a Rottweiler….. Ray described that as “fooling oneself, but not fooling God”. 
Ray concluded by saying that the carnal mind will devise ways to pretend that it is keeping the “higher commandments”   - but it’s NOT.

I have asked myself, exactly what did Ray intend us to learn from his closing remarks?    I feel that it all boils down to a matter of trust….how far do we allow ourselves to have utter confidence that God is in charge of every aspect of our lives?   Or better put, to what degree is the spirit of God working in us, causing us be desirous and determined to follow what we read in scripture, regarding our opinions and judgments?    It is not “normal” for a carnal mind to trust implicitly in an invisible God…but having a Rottweiler as “insurance” is more real to most folk than placing trust in a protecting Spirit, which we cannot see. 

It is a matter of conversion, to acknowledge that God is in control, as His word says –  including where we may be killed, or die from disease, or from “natural causes”.   One thing is inescapable - we all are going to come to the end of this physical life of ours.    Sure, nobody wants that to happen “too soon”, but happen it will.   

Eccles 3:1  To every thing there is a season, and an appointed time to every purpose under the heaven:
An appointed time to be born, and an appointed time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 

No matter how we die, it is not going to come as any great surprise to God, who measures our days.
As I “race” toward 79, I am becoming more and more aware that “time is running out” - as it will for each one of us, as we age.   

I view and hear of the escalating traumas that this whole world is experiencing, and a heightened level of apprehension will make many folk determined to keep an arsenal – and not just a Rottweiler - to ward off any enemy who might wish to cut short their lives.   I read many prognostications of a coming war on our soil…not way off on the other side of the globe…and whether they are entirely accurate with their timing or not is not important.   The fact is, preparations are well under way for that expected conflict and misery, which are being revealed by some whistle-blowers - despite all the war-preparations being conducted in secrecy with other governments.   

 There is/will be propaganda which will cause folk to become “more than a little anxious” and it will test the faith/confidence of many, including those of us who claim we believe that God is the supreme authority, despite the fact that He is invisible  - not like an AK47 assault rifle, or a Rottweiler.

This is what I feel Ray was driving at.   When the time comes and our nations are on a war-footing, will we be looking towards physical defences, or will we be faithful toward the One we claim to believe in and trust? Even though we might be killed before we live out an expected life-span, God has the power to resurrect and use His chosen ones in the next phase of His grand plan for humanity?   God knows who are included in that group.

When we read of the experiences documented in scripture of how God protected some and yet others were allowed to be killed, can we accept that it is God who “calls the shots”?    We are not to be the ones firing them.

Last night I was violently ill (cause undetermined, but suspect food poison?) and I had to accept the fact that I could choke on my own vomit, if last night were to be my final moments.     Thoughts of what might be “up ahead on the world scene” were irrelevant; the realty of my predicament completely displaced them.   Now that I have recovered, thankfully, I can once again agonise over the brutality I hear on the news and know that “things must run their course”.  Satan has his “allocated time span”.    And unconverted men will do awful things.

In my role as volunteer towards helping people at the end of their life, where not one of them has a clue about what lies ahead for them (nor would they be interested in asking), I hear tell that some are totally convinced that a “mate “who has died some time ago has “promised to keep a place in paradise for them, so they can enjoy being together again”….this fantasy is what “keeps them going” through all their pain and misery. 
What gratitude they will be able to feel, when “all is revealed” and all their present aspirations will be shown to be deceit.
We, on the other hand, have been blessed to have the outline now of what God will do; we don’t rely on fables.
It’s a matter of the strength of Jesus’ faith given to us, to encourage us as we strive to see things from God’s point of view; that is what “keeps us going”, as it did for the apostle Paul.   

This thread has taken a few twists and turns from how it began, but has provided an opportunity to discuss and weigh up the scriptural points raised.   It is not an easy thing to get to the heart of the Sermon on the Mount and be able to comprehend fully the spiritual level of the law.   

When it comes to whether or not I would physically intervene in a threatening confrontation is a decision I hope I never have to make.

  Ray said the same kind of thing - quote: “I suppose you can have ups and downs – I haven’t had any real downs since God has let me have dominion over sin, rather than sin have dominion over me…..I have not gone “down in the doldrums” and spiritually thought “woe is me” - I just haven’t and I hope I never do”. 

This was before Ray underwent the last agonising years suffering from cancer.   He remained steadfast to the end, setting an example.  Yes, he tried certain treatment to extend his life, so that he could and did serve the brethren as long as he could and God would let him.   

Ray received many nasty emails and in refuting the errors contained in them, he always said he did not hate the detractors….his job, he felt, was to expose them.  It would have been quite easy to have built up some hatred, and to have succumbed to that sin - but the truth, which he shared with us, gave him the ability to see through their antagonism and to know, as Ray wrote finally – see Why Does God Love Us  -  that God will convert and embrace them all - as part of His family….however long that may take. 

That’s the vision I ask for to keep me focused.          Colin


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lareli

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2015, 12:51:51 PM »

Thanks for posting Colin. I hope no one takes this the wrong way, I mean it with the utmost sincerity and respect... But I really like hearing from old folks. There's a perspective and patience that comes off in posts like Colin's and Ibob and a few other members that really settles something in my spirit.

I suppose God can give wisdom and patience to us at any age but there's a fruit of the spirit that's evident in posts like Colin's that I'm sure matures over years of cultivation.

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I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

dave

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2015, 02:06:56 PM »

Thank you Colin :)
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indianabob

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Re: "So - Is there any difference?"
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2015, 02:41:39 PM »

Well said and helpful Colin, still in the race at 78 years young.

I appreciate the friends who respect old age for the varied experiences it brings.
I have "adjusted" my views, understanding, opinions of several matters about life that folks who knew me when I was younger may not recognize in me today. Or better said, God has adjusted my understanding.

I mention this because I want to encourage the youth who share in the forum to patiently wait while God does a work in them.  8) the definition of youths is those who are not on Medicare yet.

Thanks again Colin and all those who contributed their loving thoughts.

I- Bob
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