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Author Topic: Shall He find faith?  (Read 6125 times)

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lareli

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 07:43:04 PM »

If we accept that 'to break one of the commandments in the smallest degree is to break them all' then I have to say there really are very few True Christians about these days - and if I try to speak about a Bible truth

Is a true Christian someone who never breaks a commandment in the smallest degree? What is forgiveness for?

A Bible Truth is one thing but my opinion of a bible truth or my interpretation of prophecy is another thing. Sometimes I have to step back and sort out my thoughts/beliefs into what exactly is a 'bible truth' vs what is really just my opinion or interpretation about a bible truth.

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Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Wittenberg

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 08:40:48 PM »

For full disclosure, I'm sorting out a lot on how to view myself and others, it's a work in progress. As of now I view myself as being born of the Spirit, having a heavenly father and an earthly mother. When my flesh sins, it's not me, it's the old Adam me. The born again me is incorruptable. When I die, the Adam in me will not be raised from the dead, only the born again me. On judgement day, the born again me will be sinless, since it is unable to sin. God may be preparing me to be an overcomer, He may not be. Either way, it will be according to His will. For those that don't know Him, they will, their walk with Him will be just as deep and meaningfull as my walk will be. He will be our God and we will be His people! It matters nothing where people are at now, God has said "every knee will bow". So they will. There is no pride or fear in anything, only hope and expectation in His promises.
Before Christ we were dead in our transgressions, we have been made alive. Soon, the rest of humanity will be too.
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Kat

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 10:53:12 PM »


Hi Wittenberg, here are a few emails that may help you sort things out.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.0.html --------------------

   no one is literally "born again," in this lifetime. While it is true that we will be "born" of God in the Resurrection (which doctrine is completely useless and unnecessary if Christians go to heaven at death), however while still in the flesh, we are "begotten" of God through His Holy Spirit. The problem of understanding this arises partly because theologians do not explain to their followers that the words "begotten" and "born" have but ONE Greek word to represent both. When we are truly "born" of God, Jesus said that we will be POWERFUL AND INVISIBLE "like the wind."
v
   Yes, Jesus was resurrected, we are NOT resurrected from being literally, physically dead, neither do we as yet have a "spiritual body"--I Cor. 15:44-50.  We symbolically and spiritually died to the "old man of sin."  And next notice HOW we are resurrected: "AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also [also....WHAT?] should walk in NEWNESS OF LIFE"  (Rom. 6:4). Not in NEWNESS OF A NEW SPIRITUAL BODY. 

Continuing: "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death [pictured by baptism], we SHALL [that's future tense, not past tense] BE also in the likeness of His resurrection"  (Verse 5).  And when will that be?  When WE are resurrected FROM THE DEATH with a new SPIRITUAL BODY.
v
   We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND."  Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead.

    Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63). 

   Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us:  "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]... LIKEWISE R-E-C-K-O-N  you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord"  (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass.
v
   We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12).  We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you"  (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US"  (I John 1:8-10).


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1859.0.html ----------------

When all else fails read and believe the Scriptures:
 
"So also is the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:  it is sown in weakness it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body"  (I Cor. 15:42-45)
 
When it says "spiritual" it does not mean "physical."

Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD [that's natural; that's physical] CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
 
Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above."  In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born."  Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of  God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom:  "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory"  (Eph. 1:13-14).


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html ------------------

The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come:  "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE.  Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
 
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.

 
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,96.0.html ----------------

Unfortunately, the Greek word translated "born" is also the same Greek word translated "begotten."  Therefore it is sometimes difficult to know whether a verse means "begotten" or "born."  The truth is that all of God's promises to and for us in this life are in "earnest or down payment" of what is to follow. We have God's spirit in earnest only;  we have eonian life in earnest only;  we have understanding and perception in earnest only.  In the resurrection we will be, "like the wind,"  "LIKE HIM" (I John 3:2). 


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5854.0.html -------------------

No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh.  One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin.  It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
v

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is BORN of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN of God.

This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten."  The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration.  Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.

Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection.  Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind."  None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).

There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

God be with you,

Ray
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 11:19:08 PM by Kat »
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Terry

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 11:41:47 AM »



We can know if we are called and chosen, saints converted by God through the down payment of His Spirit as the promise of the future redemption to come. What we can't know....yet, is if we are the elect--Called, chosen, AND faithful.

thanks Alex, i can see what your'e saying.

Thanks Kat i see what your'e saying also,

v. 13  But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

its hard for me to understand how one can see and understand and then turn back,i think thats saying turn back to the pagan beliefs,

I've tried to get my Mom to see and understand spiritual truths i want that for her so much and at times she will say i see this or that,[she 80 and in a nursing home, my brother is a preacher] and so the next time i see her everything we talked about is gone, i don't try anymore, I love her so much and i know she doesn't have much time left ,and the one thing i know would make her happier than anything would to know i went back to church and as much as i love her i can't do that, i can't even fake it for her, I love this change thats happening in me, i know i've said God is moving slow in me, but the truth is i know he is changing me,i've got a long way to go i know, and ask for the prayers of everyone who is lead to pray

Terry


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Terry

Rhys

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2015, 03:57:24 PM »




I've tried to get my Mom to see and understand spiritual truths i want that for her so much and at times she will say i see this or that,[she 80 and in a nursing home, my brother is a preacher] and so the next time i see her everything we talked about is gone, i don't try anymore, I love her so much and i know she doesn't have much time left ,and the one thing i know would make her happier than anything would to know i went back to church and as much as i love her i can't do that, i can't even fake it for her, I love this change thats happening in me, i know i've said God is moving slow in me, but the truth is i know he is changing me,i've got a long way to go i know, and ask for the prayers of everyone who is lead to pray

Terry

Is difficult to get other people to see when it's up to God. No one ever showed me what Ray taught. Only got there by sitting in church and feeling that does not seem right to me what they are saying. It's God's spirit telling me I need to go deeper so I seek after the truth. You can't do this on your own and it's God's work in you as He wills. It's good to do your best for others and give an answer when they ask but it's up to God what He reveals to each one.

Rhys
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Jeff

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2015, 11:31:11 PM »



I am starting to see that this road is really going to be a lonely one.Really is true that God has called a few.Imagine:out of 8+ billion people on this earth,we are chosen to understand some of the mysteries of God.


And "the few" are even fewer than that. There are people who used to be enthusiastic members of this forum who now are either uninterested, or think Ray is a heretic.  ::)

A lot of people read Ray's writings and like some things they read (no tithing, no hell), but they like them for the wrong reasons: it saves them money, or they can go spit in their pastor's face, or they can continue fornicating without fearing going to hell, or whatever. I've told a few people about the salvation of all, and they seemed very open to it. They liked it, but I quickly realized they liked it because it sounded nice. For them, it was comforting to know that people won't suffer for eternity; but they had no interest in taking up the cross and living the life of an overcomer.

For me, understanding the salvation of all was the best part of coming to Bible Truths--because as Ray once said "What's more important than that?" But as I read more of Ray's writings, and with help from the moderators and some of the older, wiser ones here, I realized there's a whole lot more to it than that. Universal salvation is marvelous, beautiful, and incomprehensibly grander than we can imagine, but simply believing it doesn't do anything to qualify me for the Kingdom. The resurrection of the dead and judgment eonian are "rudiments" of the word (Heb. 6:1) , and this forum is a great place to fellowship with others who strive to move on to maturity.

P.S. I know things like "no tithing" aren't the "mysteries of God"...but I thought it pertinent to the discussion to mention that of the millions of people who visit the site, only some like what they read, and only a few of those want to live what they read.

I can certainly relate to what you wrote.  When I found this place, I was so eager, so hungry.  I read constantly, every day, marveling.  But once I had read everything twice, I realized that I didn't know what to do with what God has shown me, and I was stagnant for a number of years.  God created circumstances in my life that left me no option but to seek Him, and where better to do that than here.

I can't imagine anymore - my purpose in this life - in this world - I seem to have none - and yet God continues to try me, breaking me, refining me, and rebuilding me.  I feel truly lost in this world, I do NOT belong, but I'm reminded that God is faithful and true.  He always has a purpose and I'm guilty of wanting to know why.

It's the greatest mystery in the universe, I think, as to why God creates us, loves us, nurtures us, prepares us.  The answer is in the Scriptures, but I still can't help but think - "Why ME???" I'm the least in a sea of nothingness.

Mind-boggling. True.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 11:40:03 PM by Jeff »
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Jeff

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2015, 11:34:52 PM »

Yes how true are the words of our Lord:  "MANY are called but FEW are chosen."  "When the Son of man comes, shall He find FAITH on the earth?" (Luke 18:08).   Shall He find faith??   Are you kidding me, He will find TWO BILLION PLUS believers filled with faith, won't He?   I speak as a fool.

    "FEW"--"NO FAITH"--"DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS."  That's what will be when our Lord returns. There are SIX BILLION people on this earth.  Just ONE percent (as you suggest) would be SIXTY MILLION.  Do you believe in your wildest DREAMS that there will be SIXTY MILLION faith-filled followers of Jesus Christ when he returns?  Let's try one percent OF one percent, that's SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND.  Do you really believe that ther are SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND spirit-filled, obedient, godly, overcoming, righteous followers of Jesus Christ on this earth somewhere today?  I wish to God I knew where there were just a hundred such believers and followers of Jesus Christ!"-L.Ray Smith

I am starting to see that this road is really going to be a lonely one.Really is true that God has called a few.Imagine:out of 8+ billion people on this earth,we are chosen to understand some of the mysteries of God.

I tend to meet some christians and think,"I wonder what would that person think about these truths?" And,at times these Christians are so kind,and relatively good people.

So one other christian I met and he was a cool guy.We talked about God and as usual, he was just speaking heresy,but I didn't argue with him.After an encounter with him,he started trying to teach me,sharing some stuff which were unscriptural.Then I told him one day,"go to this website and read and perhaps you may learn something"

He comes back to me and says,"hey Nels,you must stay away from that website,it is illuminati!"

I don't even know where he got that,that bible-truths is illuminati.

Got me thinking that,really is a FEW people who as called to believe these truths.

Ray speaks about "Six hundred thousand,"I can't even find One person who believes these truths within my circle of people I know.

There way there are so many Christians out there,it is so difficult to not even talk about God.Eventually the holy spirit in you speaks the truth and next thing you are labelled.

Ever found yourself having a good friend,you go out together,but as soon as the topic of God comes,the sword gets to work and starts separating ye?

We're one in 8 billion, and yet, so, so, alone, but truly not really.  We're few, and maybe not "The Few", but still few, nonetheless.

But we have each other, yeah?  ;)
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Kat

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2015, 12:28:45 PM »


It's the greatest mystery in the universe, I think, as to why God creates us, loves us, nurtures us, prepares us.  The answer is in the Scriptures, but I still can't help but think - "Why ME???" I'm the least in a sea of nothingness.

Mind-boggling. True.

Jeff, the thought as to "why me" has crossed my mind a few times too, and there is a scripture that helps me understand how it is possible.

1Cor 1:26  Now remember what you were, my friends, when God called you. From the human point of view few of you were wise or powerful or of high social standing.
v. 27  God purposely chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise, and he chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the powerful.
v. 28  He chose what the world looks down on and despises and thinks is nothing, in order to destroy what the world thinks is important.
v. 29  This means that no one can boast in God's presence. (GNB)

Aha, there you have it! God has intentionally chosen those out of the world that are the least likely, at least that does apply to me. Those verses show me how it's possible that I truly can be among the few... because I am quite certain (knowing myself as I do) that of all people I'm one of the most improbable to be God's chosen. In my life I seriously have accomplished absolutely nothing to offer... I guess that is exactly what He wants, so "no one can boast," that's for sure.

James 2:5  Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor ("Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matt 5:3)) of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

So what I see is that God is taking somebody who is so implausible, that brings absolutely nothing to the table,  so that He can show exactly how great He is in what He can accomplish in them! And the Scripture goes on to say just how He is doing this.

1Cor 1:30  But God has brought you into union with Christ Jesus, and God has made Christ to be our wisdom. By him we are put right with God; we become God's holy people and are set free.
v. 31  So then, as the scripture says, "Whoever wants to boast must boast of what the Lord has done." (GNB)

Do you see that? He's not making US wise and all that, it's Christ's Spirit in us that is showing through us that is our wisdom... "Christ to be our wisdom." Now this make sense in what I feel happens, "He must increase, but I must decrease" (John 3:30).

It seems this preparation is kind of our getting used to the Spirit working in us, and the more or faster we adjust the more it works. I'm 59 and I came to BT almost 10 years ago exactly, so for the first 49 or so years I learned what I'm capable of, really nothing to speak of. I also struggled so many years in the church to understand their religion and I just could not get it (turns out to be a good thing). So after all those years of study in church and praying to understand, I found out for sure that I could not figure out 'truth' from my own efforts.

But that all changed when I came to BT, God seemed to throw open the door of my comprehending truth, surely "my cup runs over" now. So I KNOW where this understanding is coming from and it is certainly is not anything I'm capable of, and that is not false modesty either, because I full well know what I am... it has to be the Spirit of Christ teaching me these things. Many times I just marvel at what I see in Scripture and mostly from studying to find answers to questions asked here.

So that's my answer to "why me" Jeff. It makes me all the more eager to think that somebody so lowly as myself could have God's Spirit working in me, but what else could it be? Well all I can say is "PRAISE GOD"!  I know I have not made it yet, it's not a done deal until you're raised up with a new spiritual body... even Paul knew it was possible for him to be cast away. But I certainly am very hopeful of being faithful to the end.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lareli

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2015, 12:41:39 PM »

Shall He find faith is the title of this thread... The answer is presumed 'no' is that correct? Does that mean there won't be any elect or remnant at that time? Or perhaps there will be but they are all (few as they may be) at that moment in a state of weakness where God has removed their faith?
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lareli

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2015, 12:44:57 PM »

Also... Why do any of you hope to be one of His elect?

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Kat

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2015, 03:04:05 PM »

Shall He find faith is the title of this thread... The answer is presumed 'no' is that correct? Does that mean there won't be any elect or remnant at that time? Or perhaps there will be but they are all (few as they may be) at that moment in a state of weakness where God has removed their faith?

Luke 18:7  And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?
v. 8  I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

It has occurred to me that when Christ returns to the earth the elect will already have been resurrected and  actually be with Him, so could it be that He is speaking of the rest of the world?

Jude 1:14  Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
v. 15  to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Quote
Also... Why do any of you hope to be one of His elect?

It is the destiny of all the human race to shed this carnal human flesh and be united with God in perfection... as I see it the sooner the better. I believe it is the most wonderful thing possible for a human being to be given the honor to serve God in bringing all the rest of humanity to the knowledge of this glorious truth.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Rene

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2015, 03:49:51 PM »

Also... Why do any of you hope to be one of His elect?


I feel exactly as Kathy stated.  God's elect will be the first humans to become like Christ.  They will have the marvelous job of helping to bring all of mankind to salvation!  What else in life is more important or exciting as this hope? :)
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Jeff

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2015, 09:58:29 PM »


It's the greatest mystery in the universe, I think, as to why God creates us, loves us, nurtures us, prepares us.  The answer is in the Scriptures, but I still can't help but think - "Why ME???" I'm the least in a sea of nothingness.

Mind-boggling. True.

Jeff, the thought as to "why me" has crossed my mind a few times too, and there is a scripture that helps me understand how it is possible.

1Cor 1:26  Now remember what you were, my friends, when God called you. From the human point of view few of you were wise or powerful or of high social standing.
v. 27  God purposely chose what the world considers nonsense in order to shame the wise, and he chose what the world considers weak in order to shame the powerful.
v. 28  He chose what the world looks down on and despises and thinks is nothing, in order to destroy what the world thinks is important.
v. 29  This means that no one can boast in God's presence. (GNB)

Aha, there you have it! God has intentionally chosen those out of the world that are the least likely, at least that does apply to me. Those verses show me how it's possible that I truly can be among the few... because I am quite certain (knowing myself as I do) that of all people I'm one of the most improbable to be God's chosen. In my life I seriously have accomplished absolutely nothing to offer... I guess that is exactly what He wants, so "no one can boast," that's for sure.

James 2:5  Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor ("Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matt 5:3)) of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

So what I see is that God is taking somebody who is so implausible, that brings absolutely nothing to the table,  so that He can show exactly how great He is in what He can accomplish in them! And the Scripture goes on to say just how He is doing this.

1Cor 1:30  But God has brought you into union with Christ Jesus, and God has made Christ to be our wisdom. By him we are put right with God; we become God's holy people and are set free.
v. 31  So then, as the scripture says, "Whoever wants to boast must boast of what the Lord has done." (GNB)

Do you see that? He's not making US wise and all that, it's Christ's Spirit in us that is showing through us that is our wisdom... "Christ to be our wisdom." Now this make sense in what I feel happens, "He must increase, but I must decrease" (John 3:30).

It seems this preparation is kind of our getting used to the Spirit working in us, and the more or faster we adjust the more it works. I'm 59 and I came to BT almost 10 years ago exactly, so for the first 49 or so years I learned what I'm capable of, really nothing to speak of. I also struggled so many years in the church to understand their religion and I just could not get it (turns out to be a good thing). So after all those years of study in church and praying to understand, I found out for sure that I could not figure out 'truth' from my own efforts.

But that all changed when I came to BT, God seemed to throw open the door of my comprehending truth, surely "my cup runs over" now. So I KNOW where this understanding is coming from and it is certainly is not anything I'm capable of, and that is not false modesty either, because I full well know what I am... it has to be the Spirit of Christ teaching me these things. Many times I just marvel at what I see in Scripture and mostly from studying to find answers to questions asked here.

So that's my answer to "why me" Jeff. It makes me all the more eager to think that somebody so lowly as myself could have God's Spirit working in me, but what else could it be? Well all I can say is "PRAISE GOD"!  I know I have not made it yet, it's not a done deal until you're raised up with a new spiritual body... even Paul knew it was possible for him to be cast away. But I certainly am very hopeful of being faithful to the end.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

It's all true Kat.  Just as you said it.  Something out of nothing is the awesome power of God.

Mark 8:2 (KJV) "I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat:" to Mark 8:9 "And they that had eaten were about four thousand: and he sent them away."
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Extol

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2015, 12:23:33 PM »

Also... Why do any of you hope to be one of His elect?


I feel exactly as Kathy stated.  God's elect will be the first humans to become like Christ.  They will have the marvelous job of helping to bring all of mankind to salvation!  What else in life is more important or exciting as this hope? :)

Reminds me of what Ray said at the end of one of his Bible studies:

SIT WITH CHRIST IN HIS THRONE.
(Rev. 2 & 3)

Thatís a lot of good stuff. In fact hereís a problem with it. Itís too profound, we almost donít even meditate on it. See if you could go into some kind of training and after so long you would be like a cabinet member of the president of the United States, you would say that would be pretty neat. You might put up with a lot to go into some kind of training like that, because you would hob knob with the president on Air Force One, that a pretty neat plane. You would meet all the other royalty around the world and so on and that would be pretty good.

Donít you reckon this is a little higher calling then that? It is a high calling! Really high! Probably too high for our spirit to take it in. Weíre just... oh okay that is pretty cool. But it really is great and I suppose, Iím thinking the further we go in life, if we believe these things, then it becomes more tangible. Not only will we believe them and think about them, weíll start expecting them. Where the King James uses hope the Concordant uses expectation. We will expect it, weíll be looking for it that much.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.msg56006.html#msg56006

 :) :) :)
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2015, 07:06:32 PM »

The Elect were selected by God before their birth, even before creation.

God chose the Elect, not the other way around.

If God wants you saved now, then that's what will happen.  He will bring about whatever is needed to save you.

Enjoy the ride because you cannot change things.  We are saved by the grace of God.  We cannot make the decision to unelect ourselves.

If God does not want you saved in this age, then He will save you in the ages to come.

Our loving God will save everyone.  As God said, "All will know Me, from the least to the greatest."
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Kat

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2015, 10:11:46 PM »


That is very true John, but for a large part of our lives we are deceived like the whole world is and then we do not know for sure who the chosen are.

Titus 3:3  For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

Certainly it's God's who brings everything about, He plays this out in us one day at a time and step by step with the choices we make, leading us to repentance and having faith or into deception like the church or even the tares. God causes "strong delusion" and the whole church believe they are born again with the Holy Spirit. Even after the Spirit comes into the chosen it's no absolute certainty of their enduring to the end. We all live "in Him," everything we do and say and even think is according to His intention.

Acts 17:26  And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
v. 27  so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
v. 28  for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'

The decision is certainly God's who are His chosen, but not having free will/choice does not mean we do not have a will or makes choices and who inspires these choices? Of course God is working throughout the lives of His chosen, though they cannot perceive it. He is shaping and molding them just as He sees fit and needs them to be by influencing their thinking and reasoning of the choices THEY make, "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God," (Rom 8:16).

Col 1:26  the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
v. 27  To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

No we cannot change what is predetermined, but we don't know what that is and we are given many instructions and warnings in Scripture, as to influence OUR mind. That's how God does it, not just to us, but IN us and through us.

Eze 36:27  I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Matt 7:7  "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Col 2:8  Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Rev 3:11  Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 12:32:47 PM by Kat »
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lareli

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2015, 12:59:10 PM »

I don't have any desire to rule over anyone or to be king or judge. I'd rather not. I just want to please my father and creator. If it pleases Him to try me by fire in this go round, let me be faithful. If It pleases Him for me to suffer in the next age, let me be faithful.

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Iím just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Kat

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2015, 02:15:59 PM »


Hi largeli, I'd like to say, to me, it's not about ruling in the next age at all. As you said "I just want to please my Father and Creator." If I have been given the knowledge of the truths before the rest of the world, then a am greatly blessed and deeply thankful, and will not reject any part of what is being given. 

Now if I were to make it into the first resurrection, no way do I feel capable or able to do such a thing as ruling and judging the rest of the world... so it's a good thing that the elect will not have to worry about that. As Christ does exactly what is His Father's will, never diverging from it for a second and so will the elect.

John 5:19  Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

John 8:28  Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
v. 29  And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him."

When the chosen are raised and born into the kingdom, they will be joined with Christ, who is joined with the Father and they will be perfectly one with them. The Father's will is done precisely by Christ, so it will be the same for the elect who will then be one as they are one, and in perfect harmony with them.

John 17:9  "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
v. 10  And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
v. 11  Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:20  "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
v. 21  that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
v. 22  And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
v. 23  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

1Peter 5:10  And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to His eternal (eonian) glory in Christ, will Himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

So you see, it's the Father who accomplishes His will first through Christ and then through those He raises and are joined to be one with them. It certainly will not be anything that the elect need to be concerned with knowing how to do, they will only do as they are inspired to do, and it will be done with perfection, just like Christ.

2Tim 1:8  Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
v. 9  who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lareli

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2015, 06:30:20 PM »

Kat once all are saved.. Will all be sons, daughters of God or will only the elect be sons/daughters?
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Shall He find faith?
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2015, 07:59:50 PM »

Kat once all are saved.. Will all be sons, daughters of God or will only the elect be sons/daughters?

Largeli, why do you ask such a question?
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
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