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Author Topic: Regarding the final judgement  (Read 2341 times)

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Wittenberg

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Regarding the final judgement
« on: December 27, 2015, 03:58:12 AM »

Does the final judgement happen in hearven, on earth, or some 3rd option? Thanks evrybody
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Rick

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 12:58:07 PM »

Flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven, one should always remember God is love,He is always looking out for our best interest, God is making a family and His family includes all., if your asking about the ressurrection unto dishonor it will happen on this planet we call earth.

Hope that helps.

God bless   :)
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To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

lilitalienboi16

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 01:06:51 PM »

Jesus establishes His kingdom on this earth, not somewhere else. He returns to this earth in vengeance. He returns with ten thousand of His saints, the saviours of Hosea. When His judgement are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. The great white throne judgement will occur right here on this earth. His feet will stand upon the mount of Olives. A new heaven and a new earth will come to pass and the old carnal sea of humanity will be no more.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 01:10:20 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

indianabob

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2015, 02:23:48 PM »


Hi Alex,
Your explanation seems correct and yet questions arise.
Please add to what you have presented to explain the sequence of events.

Jesus returns.
Teaches righteousness (during what length of time?)
Then the judgment or judgment concurrent with teaching of righteousness?
Then after all have been judged and had their first opportunity to learn the truth, all are made holy.
Then with a cleansed earth, the Father comes to the earth to live with HIS people and Jesus turns the kingdom over to the father so that all in all comes to be.
1 Cor 15:19-28

Little help please, Indiana Bob





Jesus establishes His kingdom on this earth, not somewhere else. He returns to this earth in vengeance. He returns with ten thousand of His saints, the saviours of Hosea. When His judgement are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. The great white throne judgement will occur right here on this earth. His feet will stand upon the mount of Olives. A new heaven and a new earth will come to pass and the old carnal sea of humanity will be no more.

God bless,
Alex
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2015, 03:16:35 PM »


Hi Alex,
Your explanation seems correct and yet questions arise.
Please add to what you have presented to explain the sequence of events.

Jesus returns.
Teaches righteousness (during what length of time?)
Then the judgment or judgment concurrent with teaching of righteousness?
Then after all have been judged and had their first opportunity to learn the truth, all are made holy.
Then with a cleansed earth, the Father comes to the earth to live with HIS people and Jesus turns the kingdom over to the father so that all in all comes to be.
1 Cor 15:19-28

Little help please, Indiana Bob





Jesus establishes His kingdom on this earth, not somewhere else. He returns to this earth in vengeance. He returns with ten thousand of His saints, the saviours of Hosea. When His judgement are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. The great white throne judgement will occur right here on this earth. His feet will stand upon the mount of Olives. A new heaven and a new earth will come to pass and the old carnal sea of humanity will be no more.

God bless,
Alex

Hello Bob,

This is my understanding (which you are welcome to agree or disagree with) and if you would like more scriptures for what I base this understanding off of then I will gladly share them.

When Jesus returns to teach the inhabitants of the world righteousness, this is synonymous with the great white throne judgement and being made holy or saved. In other words, all your steps are essentially one and the same. As ray said, all is one.

The teaching of righteousness is that judgement and the being made holy is a result of that teaching. All this occurs in the next age which begins when God returns to us to establish His kingdom. First He will descend with the shout of the arch angel, the last trumpet,  to which the dead in Christ will rise first and then we that remain will be caught up with Him. Thus begins the age of the great white throne judgement ending in God becoming all in all. The length of time of this age is not specified.

Your last question is one that the forums do not allow us to really venture too far into and I will leave it up to the moderators to clean up my post as they see fit so that for now I may at least attempt to answer you in part.

I do not believe there is someone coming after Jesus, that is, I don't believe there is someone standing behind Jesus, i.e. "Show us the Father" as Philip inquired. Jesus responded, "He that has seen me has seen the Father." Jesus is the Almighty God (Rev. 1:8) and Paul calls Him 'THE' (singular) Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13). I don't believe you can separate Jesus and the Father. There is only one God. Father and Son are one. As Arrhenius put it in the second century, "The Son is the visible of the Father while the Father is the invisible of the Son." In Jesus is the fullness of the deity is dwelling BODILY (Colosians 2:9). The Father is God as God which man cannot currently observe in his present condition (1 Tim. 6:16). Think of when Moses told Jehovah "show me your glory" and He responded, "no man is able to see my face and live."

To my understanding, when you see Jesus you absolutely see everything that is God and that which has been termed "The Father" as man. As ray said, Jesus is the autobiography of God.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 03:32:37 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

John from Kentucky

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2015, 03:30:51 PM »

I-Bob,

The Father does not come to the Earth since He is already here.

Only Jesus can reveal the Father to us.  He taught great truth when He spoke to the woman at the well.

Jesus told her that God was not located in just one place like the mountain in Samaria or in Jerusalem because God is everywhere.

Jesus taught us that God is Spirit and that those who worship God must do so in Spirit and Truth.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 03:53:07 PM by John from Kentucky »
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Kat

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2015, 11:03:45 PM »

As Arrhenius put it in the second century, "The Son is the visible of the Father while the Father is the invisible of the Son." In Jesus is the fullness of the deity is dwelling BODILY (Colosians 2:9). The Father is God as God which man cannot currently observe in his present condition (1 Tim. 6:16). Think of when Moses told Jehovah "show me your glory" and He responded, "no man is able to see my face and live."

To my understanding, when you see Jesus you absolutely see everything that is God and that which has been termed The Father" as man. As ray said, Jesus is the autobiography of God.

God bless,
Alex

The problem I have with the some of what you were saying that it leaves a lot of Scriptures out of it. As with the comment I put in bold, from Arrhenius from the second century, "the Father is the invisible of the Son," there is no Scripture that shows that and there a time that indicate otherwise. So to say that The Father and Son are one and the same or that the Son is 'everything' that the Father is does present problems... Christ had a beginning (Rev 3:14), and Rom 1:20 indicate that the Father does not. Jesus spoke many times of being "with" the Father and somebody cannot actually be the same person they are with. Also Jesus stated the Father is greater than Himself.

John 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, for My Father is greater than I.

There are many Scripture that call Christ "almighty" in the OT and the NT, however that does not make Him the Father.

Gen 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

Joel 1:15 Alas for the day!
For the day of the LORD is at hand;

2Cor 6:18 I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.

Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,fn says the Lord,fn who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

It is true that "in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," and that was always, from when the Father brought Him forth onward, As God of the OT in His pre-flesh state and when He lived as a man on earth and now in His glorious spiritual state of being. Christ has always been all that the Father wanted there to be for this creation, He is the part of God the Father that He presents to and for this creation, but that is certainly not all there is to the Father.

To understand that Christ is only that part of the Father that was brought forth to serve this creation, shows how Christ died and was dead in the tomb, and the Father continued on. We have no idea what else there is to the Father, this creation is something that the Father determined to create and bring to perfection through the Son. There will come the time when Christ will have completed His work in this creation, when all have been made one with God, then Christ will then have revealed the Father as He is to all the creation. Then everything can move forward in that wondrous state as the Father first determined that it would become.

1Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2015, 12:27:51 AM »

As Arrhenius put it in the second century, "The Son is the visible of the Father while the Father is the invisible of the Son." In Jesus is the fullness of the deity is dwelling BODILY (Colosians 2:9). The Father is God as God which man cannot currently observe in his present condition (1 Tim. 6:16). Think of when Moses told Jehovah "show me your glory" and He responded, "no man is able to see my face and live."

To my understanding, when you see Jesus you absolutely see everything that is God and that which has been termed The Father" as man. As ray said, Jesus is the autobiography of God.

God bless,
Alex

The problem I have with the some of what you were saying that it leaves a lot of Scriptures out of it. As with the comment I put in bold, from Arrhenius from the second century, "the Father is the invisible of the Son," there is no Scripture that shows that and there a time that indicate otherwise. So to say that The Father and Son are one and the same or that the Son is 'everything' that the Father is does present problems... Christ had a beginning (Rev 3:14), and Rom 1:20 indicate that the Father does not. Jesus spoke many times of being "with" the Father and somebody cannot actually be the same person they are with. Also Jesus stated the Father is greater than Himself.

John 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, for My Father is greater than I.

There are many Scripture that call Christ "almighty" in the OT and the NT, however that does not make Him the Father.

Gen 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

Joel 1:15 Alas for the day!
For the day of the LORD is at hand;

2Cor 6:18 I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.

Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,fn says the Lord,fn who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

It is true that "in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," and that was always, from when the Father brought Him forth onward, As God of the OT in His pre-flesh state and when He lived as a man on earth and now in His glorious spiritual state of being. Christ has always been all that the Father wanted there to be for this creation, He is the part of God the Father that He presents to and for this creation, but that is certainly not all there is to the Father.

To understand that Christ is only that part of the Father that was brought forth to serve this creation, shows how Christ died and was dead in the tomb, and the Father continued on. We have no idea what else there is to the Father, this creation is something that the Father determined to create and bring to perfection through the Son. There will come the time when Christ will have completed His work in this creation, when all have been made one with God, then Christ will then have revealed the Father as He is to all the creation. Then everything can move forward in that wondrous state as the Father first determined that it would become.

1Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Hi Kat,

I don't believe there is any scriptures being left out in this. One can argue that Rev 3:14 has several different translations some of which include Christ being the 'Chief' of God's creation or the 'Source' of it. I'm not arguing that the KJV isn't correctly translated but also offering perspective.

The word translated beginning is:

ar-khay'
From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

Though in fairness to your argument one could say that Jesus saying He 'came forth out of the Father' could imply a beginning. I am not saying He doesn't have one. What I am saying is it changes not the truth of the matter that Jesus is the Image of the invisible God, the only True God.

You don't like Arrhenius exclamation but let me ask you then how you contend with Paul on such a belief:

Colossians 1:12-16
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

What about John who essentially states a very similar thing about the only begotten God unfolding God.

Joh 1:18 God no one has ever seen. The only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He unfolds Him."

Doesn't Jesus also tell us the same in His rebuke to philip?

John 14:6-10
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

What of the author of Hebrews who states:

Heb 1:3  Who, being an eradiated brightness of his glory, and an exact representation of his very being, also bearing up all things by the utterance of his power, purification of sins, having achieved, sat down on the right hand of the majesty in high places:

What of Isaiah?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And Matthew?

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Paul again

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (or HE WHO) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I don't see any contradiction with what Arrhenius stated and the scriptures..

In all this never losing sight that there is only one singular God.

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that Jehovah is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

As ray wrote in his paper on solving the enigma of God. Jesus is not 'another.' He bore the Father's Glory and will come in that same Glory when He returns. This is the very same God who is invisible spirit. As paul said, He who was manifested in the flesh. God incarnate in the flesh is Jesus. Isn't that what John also affirms to us?

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 01:14:18 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Wittenberg

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2015, 01:46:51 AM »

It's really cool to see where my question went in terms of discussion. I asked the question I did because  earlier i was wrestling with how Jesus and the Father are different if they are. I am scared sometimes to go deep on this topic, sacred cow I guess. I prayed that God would reveal it to my heart, so I could be at peace with my understanxing. I am reading whqt you all are writing!
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octoberose

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 03:05:00 AM »

This has gone on an unexpected path  - and I'm hoping the moderators will be okay with us working on it a little longer.
 Ray asked rhetorically , I believe in a paper debunking the trinity, Does Jesus have a God ? Yes. Does God have a God? No.  Jesus was praying to Someone. Jesus asked that "this cup pass" him only if it was the will of the Father.  I hear what you are saying Alex and I'm pretty sure when all is revealed we will be amazed , but I can't see how God and his Son are one in the same Exactly.
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jingle52

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 08:25:27 AM »

Kat and Octoberose I think you got it right , how else could the Father resurrect the Son if He was dead as the Son? Doesn't make sense. There are two Deities. The Father is the Eternal and Supreme Being and His Son was maninfested in the flesh, so many Scriptures attest to this fact.
This is my understanding.

What about the Family and the Sons of God mentioned in the Scriptures? The Father is the head of this Family and Jesus on His right hand governing this Family/Sons of God. When God holds His counsel in heaven who is with Him? His Family/Sons of God, elders etc...

We are promised to become children /sons/ daughters of God... to take part of His family, when Jesus gives over everything to the Father, how can He give over something to Himself as some believe?
To me, there is only one singular God and that is the Father, He is the Supreme God, ruler of the Family of God and Jesus His Son the Governer of the Family of God and of the Universe under the Father.
That is my understanding.
God Bless you All
Jingle
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Joel

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2015, 12:19:07 PM »

A lot of insight can be gained by understanding what Jesus is saying in John 15. The Father is the husband, Jesus is the true vine, and we are the branches.
1 John 2:22- Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth THE FATHER AND THE SON.

Joel
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2015, 12:35:36 PM »

A lot of insight can be gained by understanding what Jesus is saying in John 15. The Father is the husband, Jesus is the true vine, and we are the branches.
1 John 2:22- Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth THE FATHER AND THE SON.

Joel

Thank you Joel, that's a really good verse!

Thank you to all who have participated in the discussion.
God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 12:40:46 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2015, 02:10:08 PM »


Okay, I'm not trying to say there is not the oneness between the Father and Son, that is a certainty with many Scripture. I'm not even saying that Christ was not the Father, He says He was... what I'm trying to say specifically is that He was what the Father created of HIMSELF to be the figure/image, that the Father did not have, because He is not a man... He is the Spokesman for the Father, as He does not have a human voice... He, the Son, is a part/extension of the Father, not separate, but He is not all and everything that the Father is.

To say that they are one and the same, just different sides to the same thing is a bi-unity, or two-in-one, I don't believe that. The Father is eternal and greater than the Son, who was brought forth at a certain point in time, to be God of this creation. There are a couple of Scripture that Christ spoke directly about the Father as being beyond Himself, greater than Himself.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, My (Jesus) doctrine is not Mine, but His (the Father's) who sent Me.
v. 17 If anyone wills to do His (the Father's) will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
v. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.

Yes we now have knowledge of the Father that the Son did unfold-reveal-declair to us, that was not understood before Christ came in the flesh and taught it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 11:15:06 PM by Kat »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2015, 02:46:00 PM »

This has gone on an unexpected path  - and I'm hoping the moderators will be okay with us working on it a little longer.


Right now the moderators appear to be okay with us working on it a little longer.  But I do want to caution:  We will not tolerate calling one another names for either disagreeing or failing to 'see' what we think we see.

There is a major problem in having this discussion.  That is--that we are forced to use terms that come with major theological baggage.  It's not possible to untangle it all AND harmonize all Scripture holding on to concepts such as "persons" (which Ray taught that only Jesus could be properly called) and Spirit, which though we use the word, I dare anybody to actually define.

None of us knows "as we ought", and nobody can 'teach' what we think we know.  I'm not talking about a forum rule here (though forum rules apply) but to the difficulty of expressing deep thoughts with "biblical" words that still carry theological assumptions.  I might well be able to 'say' what I think, but if the person hearing/reading does not 'get' what I say, then there was no genuine teaching--in other words, if nobody 'learns' then nobody was 'taught'.

But I'll add this for encouragement:

Act 17:22  And Paul, having stood in the midst of the Areopagus, said, `Men, Athenians, in all things I perceive you as over-religious;
Act 17:23  for passing through and contemplating your objects of worship, I found also an erection on which had been inscribed: To God--unknown; whom, therefore--not knowing--ye do worship, this One I announce to you.
Act 17:24  `God, who did make the world, and all things in it, this One, of heaven and of earth being Lord, in temples made with hands doth not dwell,
Act 17:25  neither by the hands of men is He served--needing anything, He giving to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26  He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth--having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings--
Act 17:27  to seek the Lord, if perhaps they did feel after Him and find, --though, indeed, He is not far from each one of us,
Act 17:28  for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.

Now then:  Not knowing as we ought, and unable to teach that which we think we know...let us proceed with humility.   
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 03:01:47 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wittenberg

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2015, 04:08:52 PM »

So well put Dave. It's language that has been perverted, not truth. (though lies can be presented as truth).

I had a thought last night after reading some of the responses.
If my kidney or some other organ was removed from my body and someone asked it who/what it was, it could answer in three ways:
1. I am a kidney
2. I am Wittenberg's kidney
3. I am Wittenberg

All three are correct ways of being identified. Obviously my kidney is not the totality of me, but it is me.
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Kat

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2015, 08:54:55 PM »

So well put Dave. It's language that has been perverted, not truth. (though lies can be presented as truth).

I had a thought last night after reading some of the responses.
If my kidney or some other organ was removed from my body and someone asked it who/what it was, it could answer in three ways:
1. I am a kidney
2. I am Wittenberg's kidney
3. I am Wittenberg

All three are correct ways of being identified. Obviously my kidney is not the totality of me, but it is me.

Hi Wittenburg, that is an analogy I have thought could apply too. Like an analogy of Jesus being the arm of God the Father, the body... the arm would be in complete harmony with whatever the body wanted it to do, never doing it's own thing, but what the body tells it to do. Being joined/knit perfectly together as one of it's parts, the arm is part of the whole, one with it.

This same type analogy applies to the elect, in having the earnest/promise of the Holy Spirit they become joined to God, so they too have the name God, as the sons/daughters of God.

1John 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Wittenberg

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2015, 09:25:07 PM »

Thank you Kat for that double witness.
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Kat

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Re: Regarding the final judgement
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2015, 01:36:08 AM »

Kat and Octoberose I think you got it right , how else could the Father resurrect the Son if He was dead as the Son? Doesn't make sense. There are two Deities. The Father is the Eternal and Supreme Being and His Son was maninfested in the flesh, so many Scriptures attest to this fact.
This is my understanding.

What about the Family and the Sons of God mentioned in the Scriptures? The Father is the head of this Family and Jesus on His right hand governing this Family/Sons of God. When God holds His counsel in heaven who is with Him? His Family/Sons of God, elders etc...

We are promised to become children /sons/ daughters of God... to take part of His family, when Jesus gives over everything to the Father, how can He give over something to Himself as some believe?
To me, there is only one singular God and that is the Father, He is the Supreme God, ruler of the Family of God and Jesus His Son the Governer of the Family of God and of the Universe under the Father.
That is my understanding.
God Bless you All
Jingle

Hi Jingle, here are a few things that I think are worth considering.

Omnipercipience/Omnipercipient -- Perceiving every thing.

Omnipotence/Omnipotent/Omnipotently -- Almighty; possessing unlimited power; all powerful.

Omnipresence/Omnipresent/Omnipresential -- Presence in every place at the same time; unbounded or universal presence; ubiquity.

Omniscience/Omniscient/Omniscious -- The quality of knowing all things at once; universal knowledge; knowledge unbounded or infinite.

This is what God is... the Father is the source of all these things, because Jesus said multiple times that He received it all from the Father.

Matt 11:27  All things have been delivered to Me by My Father... also (Luke 10:22)

John 3:35  The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.

John 5:26  For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
v. 27  and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

John 13:3  Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God,

John 17:1  Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
v. 2  as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

1Cor 15:27  For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him.

The Father is the eternal and Supreme Being, yes, and the Son being one with the Father, possesses the quality of God, is equal to God (Php 2:6), because He is God too. Here is what Jesus said.

John 14:9  ...He who has seen Me has seen the Father...

John 12:45  And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

Col 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
v. 16  For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17  And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

But His Son is not another being, there is no Scripture that support the idea of there being 2 deities. The Father is supreme and brought forth the Son, who has always been God, "God was manifested in the flesh"(1Tim 3:16).

The Son is the image of God, so that we can actually see Him, because we can certainly connect better with what we can literally see. Christ was brought forth first "before all things" (col 1:17), to create and be over all things in this creation. Christ has received everything "inherently" from the source of all power, glory and everything there is, because the Son is part of the Godhead/Divinity, They are one, inseparable and not separated in 2 parts.

Heb 1:1  God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
v. 2  has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
v. 3  who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Heb 1:4  having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 01:20:01 PM by Kat »
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