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Regarding the final judgement
jingle52:
Kat and Octoberose I think you got it right , how else could the Father resurrect the Son if He was dead as the Son? Doesn't make sense. There are two Deities. The Father is the Eternal and Supreme Being and His Son was maninfested in the flesh, so many Scriptures attest to this fact.
This is my understanding.
What about the Family and the Sons of God mentioned in the Scriptures? The Father is the head of this Family and Jesus on His right hand governing this Family/Sons of God. When God holds His counsel in heaven who is with Him? His Family/Sons of God, elders etc...
We are promised to become children /sons/ daughters of God... to take part of His family, when Jesus gives over everything to the Father, how can He give over something to Himself as some believe?
To me, there is only one singular God and that is the Father, He is the Supreme God, ruler of the Family of God and Jesus His Son the Governer of the Family of God and of the Universe under the Father.
That is my understanding.
God Bless you All
Jingle
Joel:
A lot of insight can be gained by understanding what Jesus is saying in John 15. The Father is the husband, Jesus is the true vine, and we are the branches.
1 John 2:22- Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth THE FATHER AND THE SON.
Joel
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Joel on December 29, 2015, 09:19:07 AM ---A lot of insight can be gained by understanding what Jesus is saying in John 15. The Father is the husband, Jesus is the true vine, and we are the branches.
1 John 2:22- Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth THE FATHER AND THE SON.
Joel
--- End quote ---
Thank you Joel, that's a really good verse!
Thank you to all who have participated in the discussion.
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
Okay, I'm not trying to say there is not the oneness between the Father and Son, that is a certainty with many Scripture. I'm not even saying that Christ was not the Father, He says He was... what I'm trying to say specifically is that He was what the Father created of HIMSELF to be the figure/image, that the Father did not have, because He is not a man... He is the Spokesman for the Father, as He does not have a human voice... He, the Son, is a part/extension of the Father, not separate, but He is not all and everything that the Father is.
To say that they are one and the same, just different sides to the same thing is a bi-unity, or two-in-one, I don't believe that. The Father is eternal and greater than the Son, who was brought forth at a certain point in time, to be God of this creation. There are a couple of Scripture that Christ spoke directly about the Father as being beyond Himself, greater than Himself.
John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, “My (Jesus) doctrine is not Mine, but His (the Father's) who sent Me.
v. 17 “If anyone wills to do His (the Father's) will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
John 8:54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
v. 55 “Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
Yes we now have knowledge of the Father that the Son did unfold-reveal-declair to us, that was not understood before Christ came in the flesh and taught it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: octoberose on December 29, 2015, 12:05:00 AM ---This has gone on an unexpected path - and I'm hoping the moderators will be okay with us working on it a little longer.
--- End quote ---
Right now the moderators appear to be okay with us working on it a little longer. But I do want to caution: We will not tolerate calling one another names for either disagreeing or failing to 'see' what we think we see.
There is a major problem in having this discussion. That is--that we are forced to use terms that come with major theological baggage. It's not possible to untangle it all AND harmonize all Scripture holding on to concepts such as "persons" (which Ray taught that only Jesus could be properly called) and Spirit, which though we use the word, I dare anybody to actually define.
None of us knows "as we ought", and nobody can 'teach' what we think we know. I'm not talking about a forum rule here (though forum rules apply) but to the difficulty of expressing deep thoughts with "biblical" words that still carry theological assumptions. I might well be able to 'say' what I think, but if the person hearing/reading does not 'get' what I say, then there was no genuine teaching--in other words, if nobody 'learns' then nobody was 'taught'.
But I'll add this for encouragement:
Act 17:22 And Paul, having stood in the midst of the Areopagus, said, `Men, Athenians, in all things I perceive you as over-religious;
Act 17:23 for passing through and contemplating your objects of worship, I found also an erection on which had been inscribed: To God--unknown; whom, therefore--not knowing--ye do worship, this One I announce to you.
Act 17:24 `God, who did make the world, and all things in it, this One, of heaven and of earth being Lord, in temples made with hands doth not dwell,
Act 17:25 neither by the hands of men is He served--needing anything, He giving to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth--having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings--
Act 17:27 to seek the Lord, if perhaps they did feel after Him and find, --though, indeed, He is not far from each one of us,
Act 17:28 for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.
Now then: Not knowing as we ought, and unable to teach that which we think we know...let us proceed with humility.
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