> General Discussions

2 Corinthians 10:5

(1/4) > >>

rick:
2 Corinthians 10:5King James Version (KJV)

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Sometimes when I read scripture I get the impression I have free will because it tells me I need to do sometging or act upon something.

I don't really understand , sometimes I think To myself ,sure you have a will but your will is subjected to Gods will.

So if I wish to do something I can do it except Gods will trumps my will, would God trump my will if I try to do as 2 Corinthians 10:5 sujest or command.

I come to believe I can do nothing on my own even as Christ could do nothing on His own but what does that mean for me ?

If Christ wants me to live up to Corinthians then I can but if Christ does not want me to then I can't ?

I guess right now I see it as a catch 22 situation, Im not complaining ,just not umderstanding.

If I don't understand , is it because God called me but did not choose me ? I know scripture say many are called but few are chosen, I often wonder if the called never gets the meaning where as the elect do but none the less I do feel God wants me to keep plugging away just the same.

There are so many things I don't understand and.wonder at times of the things I do undedstand , how much of those things do I fully understand or how much is lacking ?

But I should say in all things God has given everyone hope even if they themselves don't know it.

God bless everyone.

Wittenberg:
Wow Rick! I can definitely relate to what you wrote.

Kat:

Hi Rick, when you think about our 'will,' it's what we think, what we determine in our minds and becomes 'our' desires and then what we ultimately choose to do or say, "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he" (Pro 23:7). Of course there is all the causes and circumstances involved, but this cause and effect is a natural law that applies to everything. So when we are worldly we are carnal minded, living according to the desires of the flesh, our ego. But when God's Spirit becomes indwells, then He begins to influence us and though we still have our own will, the Spirit's influence begins to make big changes in the way we think.

Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Now God always expresses in Scripture what His will is for the elect to do, it is written for the elect, because He doesn't leave us to figure this all out on our own, we have the testimony of the all the Scripture to guide us. Look at the verses before the verse you brought up and you will see the elect have the "power of God" - His Holy Spirit, to fight the battles in this world.

2Cor 10:3  Of course, we are living in the world, but we do not wage war in a world-like way.
v. 4  For the weapons of our warfare are not those of the world. Instead, they have the power of God to demolish fortresses. We tear down arguments
v. 5  and every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive in order to obey the Messiah. (ISV)

God's working in believers is a process, He is preparing us and we must go through many trials that show us our weaknesses.  When we begin to see how truly ugly this carnality is, and we do not like it and want to get rid of it, that is the Holy Spirit working with us  showing us this, our will is changing. So through these experiences over and over again we begin to see and understand what we must change.

God wants us to have a real hatred for carnality and a great desire for this truth, proven to be sincere over time, so that when He does reveal these things we will really appreciate it. So our will is slowly changed, the Spirit gives us a convection of the truth, and we begin to get in line with God's will and purpose. But it's a process and it takes time.

Php 2:13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

We are being shown that we must trust and obey God completely and that's what OUR will is learning to do. But it takes OUR own desire and effort with God's Spirit influencing us, but WE are doing the changing, WE are working to conform our minds to His will, trusting Him.

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

I've began to see that these truths are built one upon another, there is an order I guess and we cannot skip ahead, that why we all seem to be at different levels, we are. God is not going to just drop this precious truth in our lap, it is a gradual process, as we strive to learn it comes little by little of God showing us what He knows we are ready to understand.

If your eyes have been opened to these truth, then you must believe you are in the race... think of how few in this world have even heard these truths, much less believe them. But I think this is a race of endurance we are in, we may get discouraged at times, but we can never give up. This is not suppose to be easy, I think it has to do with nothing of real value is easily obtained.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: Rick on January 09, 2016, 06:43:20 PM ---2 Corinthians 10:5King James Version (KJV)

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Sometimes when I read scripture I get the impression I have free will because it tells me I need to do sometging or act upon something.

I don't really understand , sometimes I think To myself ,sure you have a will but your will is subjected to Gods will.

So if I wish to do something I can do it except Gods will trumps my will, would God trump my will if I try to do as 2 Corinthians 10:5 sujest or command.

I come to believe I can do nothing on my own even as Christ could do nothing on His own but what does that mean for me ?

If Christ wants me to live up to Corinthians then I can but if Christ does not want me to then I can't ?

I guess right now I see it as a catch 22 situation, Im not complaining ,just not umderstanding.

If I don't understand , is it because God called me but did not choose me ? I know scripture say many are called but few are chosen, I often wonder if the called never gets the meaning where as the elect do but none the less I do feel God wants me to keep plugging away just the same.

There are so many things I don't understand and.wonder at times of the things I do undedstand , how much of those things do I fully understand or how much is lacking ?

But I should say in all things God has given everyone hope even if they themselves don't know it.

God bless everyone.

--- End quote ---

Hello Rick,

I'm not sure what the struggle is but I will say in my experience, the SUM of God's Word is truth. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Don't let one verse throw your understanding off but always keep in mind the SUM. Only God's spirit can give understanding so this is all in the hand's of God.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm:

RELATIVE VS. ABSOLUTE

If a theologian can't see the "absolute" versus the "relative" in Scripture, he is in no position to teach anyone.

A little boys asks: "Why did God say in Gen. 3:9: 'Where art thou [Adam]?' Mommy says that God knows everything." (I Jn 3:20). You say, "Of course God knew where Adam was. Adam sinned. Adam felt bad. He thought he could hide from God. God was condescending to man's level. It was for Adam's benefit that God asked, 'Where art thou Adam?'" You say, "That's not a problem. That's easy to understand and answer. It's stupid to think that God didn't know where Adam was."

And, of course, we have Scriptural proof that God knew where Adam was because "He [God] knows all" (I Jn 3:20)

Neither did our Lord ask questions out of ignorance:

"Believe ye that I am able to do this?" (Matt. 9:28)

"Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?" (Matt. 12:48)

"How many loaves have ye?" (Matt. 15:34)

"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matt. 116:13)

Christ asked dozens of questions during His ministry. But He already knew all the answers:

" ... because of His knowing ALL men ... " (Matt. 21:27).

Christ even answered questions by asking questions. The Pharisees asked why His disciples transgressed the "traditions." Our Lord knew how to "answer a fool according to his folly" (Prov. 26:5) by asking: "Wherefore are you also transgressing the precept of God because of your tradition?" (Mat. 15:3)

This brings up another apparent contradiction, however, because Prov. 26:4 says: "answer not a fool according to his folly ... " Our Lord knew how to do that as well: "Neither am I telling you by what authority I am doing these things." (Mat. 21:27). These two scriptures in Proverbs should teach us to never pit one verse of Scripture against another. Verse 4 and 5 do not contradict. They are both true.

So if it's stupid to think that God didn't really know where Adam was, a relative statement condescending to man's level, isn't it then, likewise, stupid to believe that God contradicts Himself in the following verses:

 

THE RELATIVE:                                                                                                                         THE ABSOLUTE:

" ... seek, and ye shall find ... " (Mat. 7:7)                                                          "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)
"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14)                                                                         "God is not a man Who changes His mind" (I Sam. 15:29)
" ... choose you this day whom ye will serve." (Josh. 24:15)                                      "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you ... " (Jn. 15:16)
" ... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God ... " (I Jn. 3:10)                          "All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
"Zechariah was just before God" (Lk. 1:5) (Comparing him to the corrupt priests)             "Not one is just" (Rom. 3:10) (Comparing man with God)
 

One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.

Both Scriptures are true. The relative is true and the absolute is true. They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."

Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."

Even theologians admit that their free will theory is limited. So they have invented "limited free will." They use analogies like a cow on a tether or a fly in a jar or a lion in a cage. Their freedom is limited to the confines of their restraints, but within those confines they are nonetheless, free. Is this true? Is there such a thing as "limited" free will? Or is this just more theological double-talk?

Only in religion do simple words lose their meaning. Let's look at Webster's Twentieth Century Dictionary: Page 963, "limited, a. Restricted." Page 682, "free, a. without restriction." So here then is what theologians want us to believe: Man has a will that is restricted without restriction.

Man does not have "limited" free will. Otherwise God would have "limited" sovereignty. Man has no free will and God has total sovereignty. Theologians try to make high what is low and try to bring low what is high. These teachings do not glorify God.

Somebody has been taking William James too seriously. God is not sitting around waiting to see what man will do through his "free will" so that He can then figure out what to do about it. Rather than conclude from the "wisdom of the world" that man has a free will (and thus deny the sovereignty of God), we must conclude that since God is sovereign, man can not and does not have a free will. This is logical, sensible, and lawful. It is Scriptural and it glorifies God.

Hopefully this excerpt will help a little? God's sovereignty and our choices are a difficult concept to understand but not if we stick to the scriptures.

We work out or salvation with fear and tremble... because... BECAUSE it is GOD who works in US both to will and to do of His good pleasure. These admonishments such as corinthians only make sense if we see that it is God who brings about the desire for us to do those things, then He brings about the effort we put forth, then He brings about the strength for us to do it and then we become obedient and do it. All the way through though it was "I live, nevertheless, not I but CHRIST IN ME." He must increase and I must decrease. For we are HIS workmanship. Predestined according to the foreknowledge of God. Therefor it is not of him who wills or him who does but of God who shows mercy. Has not the potter power over clay, to make one vessel of honor and another of dishonor? Behold, I [Jesus] am MAKING all things new!

So then, why do you call me Lord and do not the things which I say?

When YOU are bringing every thought captive to Christ and YOU are obeying then you will see that GOD is in you working.

I hope some of this helps.

God bless,
Alex

Porter:
Great questions Rick and ones I've thought about also so I can relate.

I've heard through Ray's writings and my own studies that one of the keys to understanding is by repenting. 

Act 2:38  "Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Joh 14:26  But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit--the Father will send Him in My name--will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

Ray on repentance.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

The reason that I want to talk about repentance is because repentance is a major door to understanding. I tried to understand many things before I truly repented.

You can’t take credit for it; in His time He will do it.  If you are going to be one of the few that are actually chosen, then God is going to do it.  So why am I up here telling you if He’s going to do it, just go home and let Him do it!  Right?   Because God uses the “foolishness of teaching”, that’s why.  That’s the only reason I’m up here.  He uses the foolishness of preaching.  Some of you will remember this day.  It will be a turning point in your life!  You’ll say, “that Saturday afternoon Ray was preaching about Repentance, it changed my life forever!”   That is, if God has decided that is what today will do for you…

So I was wanting to repent of everything.  EVERYTHING.  I didn’t want to hold on to anything!  Give it all up.  And in my heart and mind, I was able to do it.  And I didn’t have to struggle!  I mean, I struggled all my life against these sins and now I didn’t have to struggle anymore.  The temptations would come up, but I would just put a stop on it.  That was it; God put me in control.  And I didn’t have to fight it night and day.  It just started to take care of itself.  Because there was a power working in my mind that I didn’t have before.  It was now God’s time to do that.

And when I had nothing more to repent of, that I knew of, then the scriptures started opening up.  I started understanding the scriptures that I never understood before.  And I would learn something every month.  Every week, and then almost every day!  New things, spiritual things, lofty things.  So, if the spirit of God is going to be between your ears (you understand your heart is in your brain…), when the spirit of God starts to motivate your mind then you have greater capacity.  If you have a glass of water and you want to pour a coke into it, you’ve got to pour the water out, you’ve got to make room.  And that’s what happens in your life when you make room for God.

If you read my series on the Lake of Fire, you know I talk about the “man of sin” who sits on the throne claiming that he is god.  That’s in you!  That throne is in you.  That man of perdition is you.  And he sits in there claiming to be god.  And you can’t serve two masters.  Before Jesus Christ can sit on the throne of your heart, the man of perdition has got to get out!  And of course, the presence of the Lord is what drives out the man of perdition.  The presence of God coming into your life will drive out this beast (the carnal mind).  And then you’ll begin to understand things that you never understood before.

Who knows what the first word was that Jesus Christ said in his ministry?  According to Matthew it was, “Repent.”  So if that’s the first word out of our Savior’s mouth, maybe we ought to look at it a little bit…

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page