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Life is rigged.
lareli:
--- Quote from: indianabob on January 29, 2016, 03:17:20 PM ---Largeli,
Point taken. And you are correct about the facts of how human expansion and colonization of new lands takes place. It is sad that an imperial attitude goes with exploration of unmapped areas by existing civilizations. The Bible illustrates that it has always been so.
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However most of the people who went out into the land to establish a farm and live in a little log cabin weren't like that description. Most were not greedy and did work hard to get along with the original tribes. And yes their children, when they grew up, did benefit from the unloving things that some ancestors did to the original occupants of the new land. And yes religion was no excuse for that terrible and selfish behavior. We today who have been called out should understand even better that the Original tribes were not rejecting Christ, because most of them were not being called any more than people from our society today.
I think we both understand that there are greedy, selfish people in the best of societies including religious societies and secular societies.
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That doesn't necessarily mean that the average working person who loves their family and wants a better life for them is of the same attitude.
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In any case my story was to illustrate only that we who have been given the understanding to believe in this age are not much different that those who will come later. We are just the first fruits of a much greater harvest. We are not the better fruits. We are just the first to be ripened to useful maturity by our creator so that the way can be prepared for the work of bringing all or everyone into the same glorious condition in the end.
God has always worked that way. God delegates HIS work to those of HIS creation. God lets us participate in the growth and development of a believing society rather than doing it all Himself.
Of course we know that it really is His doing, but in secret to those who are not given to understand.
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Hope that this will help a little to illustrate my point.
Thanks for listening, Indiana Bob
--- End quote ---
Hi bob, yes I see your point.
But why do you say that the native peoples were not being called? Is it because they didn't have knowledge of the Christ? But if you read many of the accounts written about them by Columbus and many others, the natives lives and ways of treating people resembled the early church in Acts more so than any 'Christian' I've ever known.
If someone has never heard of the Christ but obeys the law of Christ, which is to love your neighbor as yourself, isn't that persons conscience showing that he has Christ written on his heart? Doesn't Romans talk about those who have never heard of Christ and how their conscience either convicts them when wrong or affirms them when good? Showing that even though they may not have the intellectual knowledge of the Christ being born and dying and being resurrected, they know Him in their hearts?
Kat:
--- Quote from: largeli on February 03, 2016, 01:10:00 PM ---
Hi bob, yes I see your point.
But why do you say that the native peoples were not being called? Is it because they didn't have knowledge of the Christ? But if you read many of the accounts written about them by Columbus and many others, the natives lives and ways of treating people resembled the early church in Acts more so than any 'Christian' I've ever known.
If someone has never heard of the Christ but obeys the law of Christ, which is to love your neighbor as yourself, isn't that persons conscience showing that he has Christ written on his heart? Doesn't Romans talk about those who have never heard of Christ and how their conscience either convicts them when wrong or affirms them when good? Showing that even though they may not have the intellectual knowledge of the Christ being born and dying and being resurrected, they know Him in their hearts?
--- End quote ---
Rom 2:10 But God will give glory, honor, and peace to all who do what is good, to the Jews first and also to the Gentiles.
v. 11 For God judges everyone by the same standard.
v. 12 The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are lost apart from the Law. The Jews have the Law; they sin and are judged by the Law.
v. 13 For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands.
v. 14 The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the Law.
v. 15 Their conduct shows that what the LAW commands is written in their hearts. Their consciences also show that this is true, since their thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them.
v. 16 And so, according to the Good News I preach, this is how it will be on that Day when God through Jesus Christ will judge the secret thoughts of all.
Yes people can and do good things that are not His chosen, and when Christ returns He will judge every person according to how they have lived and it certainly will benefit them if they've had good deeds attributed to them in this life.
1Cor 3:13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
But there is only one way to receive salvation and come up in the first resurrection and that is through Jesus Christ, "the Door."
John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
v. 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
v. 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
v. 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
v. 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
v. 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee (Columbus?) be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Many are called--few are chosen.
lareli:
Yes people can and do good things that are not His chosen, and when Christ returns He will judge every person according to how they have lived and it certainly will benefit them if they've had good deeds attributed to them in this life.
I understand, thanks Kat
judy:
I love you guys, even your squabbling. Now I know why i was raised in taverns of which my parents owned and why I was born to immigrant grandparents who became successful bootleggers!!! I'm serious here, while reading this thread it became quite clear why and however long remaining my husband will be an alchoholic, unless God changes His mind. I need to fully accept this and quit trying to change this. I was made for him, loved him, still do and who else would put up with him, a very poor boy who married too young and still doesn't know who he is. ME!!!!! But God has given me an acceptance of these people, love for them, tools, understanding and who else would have put up with me, seriously. I think I'm right where I should be or I wouldn't be. judy
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