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Author Topic: You will give an account , so says the bible.  (Read 8844 times)

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rick

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You will give an account , so says the bible.
« on: January 28, 2016, 06:23:54 PM »

well, I must admit , this is not something I'm looking forward to and would love to elude this day. But that is what the bible says,like it or not.

What purpose is there in  having to give an account of all I've done in the course of my life.

Well no doubt there is a very good reason for this but none the less, it seems more like to me a dreadful thing to do, ie  have not lived a righteous life.

There is no possible case I could make to all knowing loving wise creator. The bible says if you ask to be forgiven He is faithful and just to forgive , I do wonder if I will be required to give an account for those things I did ask forgivness for however there are things I've done that are no longer in my memory but I must say when things creep back into my memory that are not right I always ask for forgiveness concerning those things too.

probably no wisdom in saying You Lord have made me spiritually weak and could not help myself because who is the clay to say to the Potter why have you made me so.

That's a road I wish not to go down. So and account I shall give but the truth is where would one even start ? oh boy.

God bless all.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2016, 07:27:31 PM »

well, I must admit , this is not something I'm looking forward to and would love to elude this day. But that is what the bible says,like it or not.

What purpose is there in  having to give an account of all I've done in the course of my life.

Well no doubt there is a very good reason for this but none the less, it seems more like to me a dreadful thing to do, ie  have not lived a righteous life.

There is no possible case I could make to all knowing loving wise creator. The bible says if you ask to be forgiven He is faithful and just to forgive , I do wonder if I will be required to give an account for those things I did ask forgivness for however there are things I've done that are no longer in my memory but I must say when things creep back into my memory that are not right I always ask for forgiveness concerning those things too.

probably no wisdom in saying You Lord have made me spiritually weak and could not help myself because who is the clay to say to the Potter why have you made me so.

That's a road I wish not to go down. So and account I shall give but the truth is where would one even start ? oh boy.

God bless all.

Hi Rick,

I'm thinking you are referring to this verse:

2 Cor 5:9-11
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Romans 14:9-11
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Do we not stand now before the judgement seat of Christ? Is that not what Gehenna is? Do we not take into account our actions and cast off the part of the body which is unprofitable. Have we not volunteered now to be judged so that we are not condemned with the world?

1 Corinthians 11:31-32
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So let us run the race with all that we have so as to attain the crown of life. So that we are not ashamed at His coming and may stand in the fire before Him.

Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

That's how I see it. Everyday we are being judged. We stand before the judgment seat of Christ daily and He works in us to judge ourselves and becoming one with the fire. One with Him.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

rick

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2016, 08:09:04 PM »

Hi Alex.

Scripture is quite clear that all will ( stand ) before the judgement seat of Christ and give account.

I understand we are now being judge or better put going through the lake of fire but I thinking ( stand ) is either a physical thing or its symbolic.

Sometimes, out of nowhere comes a memory of some kind of wrong doing, of course as God brings to mind these things, I ask forgiveness.

Can this be considered standing before the judgement seat of Christ ?  Im not sure how to understand  this , could it be sybolic , Im not sure.

God bless.

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Kat

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2016, 09:40:06 PM »


Here is where Ray spoke on the judgment of the elect.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm --------------------

"For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22).

And so, The Judgment, the High Council, Gehenna fire, and prison, are the Judgments of Jesus Christ, and no one else. They are His SPIRITUAL JUDGMENTS. And since they are spiritual, few indeed, have even a clue as to what they are and how they are administered. Jesus said if one of His disciples is angry with a brother, they would be in danger of the Judgment. Judgment (Gk: krisis-Tribunal, justice, divine law). Jesus has such a tribunal:
 
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad"  (II Cor. 5:10).

"But why do you judge thy brother? or why do you set at naught your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat [Gk: bema-- 'tribunal, dais] of Christ" (Rom. 14:10).

Now then, when "must we all appear before the judgment sea of Christ?" When the whole world appears before it? NO. Let's read the verse:

"For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Do we for the first time appear before the dais of Christ when the rest of the world appears before His dais? No, of course not. If we blow our knee to Christ for the first time in the White Throne Judgment with the rest of the world, we won't be in the kingdom of God.We had better be "bowing the knee to Jesus" right NOW.

"...Behold now is the accepted time; Behold, now is the day  ['a day'-Rotherham, Diaglott, Young's, Concordant]  of salvation"  (II Cor. 6:2).

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now  commands all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).

"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed" (Rom. 13:11).

"Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy" (I Pet. 2:10).

"For if we would judge ourselves  [now]  we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned  [later]  with the world  [later in the Great White Throne Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).
 
"For the TIME IS COME  [now] that judgment must begin at the House of God..."  (I Pet. 4:17).

"...for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10).

There can be no argument against the fact that God's Elect are to "bow their knee" NOW in this Church age or we will find ourselves in the next age when, "Because He has appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." Acts 17:31). During our calling, we stand before the Judgment of Jesus and give an account daily of the works done in our flesh. How do we actually do this? Paul instructs us: "For if we would judge ourselves..." (I Cor. 15:11:31). This is how we are to be judged.

Notice how Paul's statement is in perfect agreement with that of Jesus: "And if your right eye offend you,  [you]  pluck it out... And if your right hand offend you,  [you]  cut it off..." (Matt. 5:29-30).

Isn't that amazing? That's how Jesus Judges US. He helps us judge OURSELVES! It is voluntary. But if we do not volunteer to judge ourselves, guess what? "...for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish [voluntarily] and not that your whole body should be cast [Gk: ballo-'throw violently or intensely' against your will] into Gehenna [fire]" (Ver. 30)

"For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged... we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

In God's due time, all humanity will voluntarily desire with their whole heart to be a member of the Family of God. No one will be forced in or out of God's Family.
--------------------------------------------------------------

But there is more to it, the judgment on the chosen few now is their second death, that all must endure, as it implies in Hebrews. Here is is more where Ray spoke on that.

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm -------------------

Now get ready for a real revelation. There are two mysteries in Heb. 9:27 when applied to God's Elect:

1.what and when is the "ONCE to die?"

2.what and when is the "after this JUDGMENT?"

We will take up the Elect's Judgment part of this verse first.

We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.

Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."
 
For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see.
v
The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die DAILY  ['daily am I dying'--Concordant Version]" (I Cor. 15:31).

"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed  ['we are put to death'--Concordant Version] all the DAY LONG; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:36).

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life  ['die'] for my sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25).

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live  [Paul was spiritually dead, 'crucified,' yet he still lived 'now... in the flesh' and was growing spiritually in Christ] in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
v
Now for the second part of the Heb. 9:27 riddle: When and how do God's Elect die "ONCE" before their SECOND death Judgment? Some of you should already be ahead of me with all the hints I have given you, but for the rest who haven't figured it out yet, you will maybe feel a little embarrassed when you see the answer, so here it is:

"Know ye not [no, of course the majority of Christendom 'knows not,' and that is why the physical aspects of baptism is so important to them...] ...know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into DEATH" (Rom. 6:3-4).

There is the answer to how God's Elect must "once die" before their "Second death Judgment."
 
The carnal world dies when they breathe their last and go down into the grave. God's Elect die when they are "baptized into death.". After resurrection from the dead, the world will enter into Judgment. And what about us--God's Elect? When do we enter into Judgment? Same way, when we are resurrected from the dead through baptism.

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection"  (Rom. 6:4).

But we are not literally resurrected to immortality as Jesus was, when we are raised from the dead after being baptized into JESUS, are we? No, not literally, that is why Paul says we are to, "reckon you also yourselves to be dead."

"Likewise r-e-c-k-o-n you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11).

The Greek word for "reckon" means "to estimate, conclude, impute, reason, reckon, suppose, think." It is not necessary to "reckon" something that is literally a present reality. In the future we will literally be free from all sin and literally have immortality in resurrection, but for now we can just "reckon" it.

This death is not a literal, physical death, but it is a REAL death, and it is most important:

"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him" (Rom. 6:08).

Notice also that in addition to being baptized into Christ's death, we are also "buried." True, this is figurative language, but it is true language. We truly are not only crucified with Christ, and die with Christ, but we are also buried with Him. THIS IS THE FIRST DEATH OF THE ELECT BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH IN JUDGMENT BY FIRE.

How sad it is that billions of people are eager to be baptized in water, but do not know what it means to be "baptized into Jesus Christ." If people want to be baptized in water, fine, but if they are not at the same time "baptized into Jesus Christ," which means "baptized into death," then they only go down dry and come up wet--little else changes in their lives.

Remember that the Lake of fire IS death, but death only to those things which are to be no longer. Are there to be people after the Judgment? Yes. Well then people will not be literally killed or annihilated in this judgment by fire. How would God ever be "ALL in all" (I Cor. 15:28)?
--------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lauriellen

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 07:03:43 PM »

I just had a thought while reading this. It would seem to me that we can not choose to be baptized any more than we can choose to be chosen as one of the elect. When I attended our local Baptist church, I made a decision at one point to be 'baptized' and join the church. It seems pretty absurd now that I think of it. Only Jesus can make that determination and only at His appointed time. Once again, it proves how futile and useless our own physical efforts to attain something that can only be accomplished thru the spirit.
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rick

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 09:05:27 PM »

Quote from: lauriellen link=topic=16501.msg14933understand149336 date=1454105023
I just had a thought while reading this. It would seem to me that we can not choose to be baptized any more than we can choose to be chosen as one of the elect. When I attended our local Baptist church, I made a decision at one point to be 'baptized' and join the church. It seems pretty absurd now that I think of it. Only Jesus can make that determination and only at His appointed time. Once again, it proves howYour Yahoo verification code is HDCZRCNJ futile and useless our own physical efforts to attain something that can only be accomplished thru the spirit.

Hi Lauriellen.

I agree with you we cannot choose Christ in and of ourselves, I've gotten hung up on the fact that we don't have free will or choice and so Im waiting for Christ to just to do it all, but Im coming to the understanding that if I have a desire for God which I do then He is most definitely is calling me.

I  / we have to make a choice and I choose Christ but I understand He chosen me first, I discovered I do not have the ability to live up to the standards of OUR God .

You might say I been in the wilderness with God going round in circles while God is showing me that He is sovereght and my need for Him.

I can do nothing on my own but with Christ I can do all things that He requires of me, if there is a desire in me to do something wrong I need to make a choice to avoid that wrong desire or thought, and the same goes for a desire to do something good, I must choose.

The difference I see is it takes the power of God to do what is right and so I don't take credit for anything because I understand that all glory belongs to God and not man.

God gives us the desire but we must choose, we are not robots we do have a part in Gods plan otherwise we would not be held accountable.

When I had done this thread I was thinking in the way of Christendom but the reply from both Alex and Kat put me in awe and just started thanking God for being so loving, gentle and kind to a sinner like me.

Its sometimes differcult for me because Chrisrendom has instilled in me a dread for God, but with Rays papers and this forum I am most definitely developing a love for our wonderful creator.

God has a plan, imagine that, I once thought good people went to heaven and bad people went to hell, wow what a difference the truth made in my life but I know I am receiving the truth because it is in the plan of God I received it

Its also in the plan of God I choose to follow Him and no one cant thrawt the plan of God so I follow within the scope He allows me to with the choises I make.

God bless everyone.

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Kat

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 12:28:19 PM »


This world is created in such a way that cause and effect is very much at play in all we do, but certainly our choices are what 'we' make, are our decisions and all the consequences that go with it. God knows those that He will choose, He knows the way we think and act... He has been dealing with us all our lives. He has brought/caused us to have serious questions/doubts about religion for many years before our eyes are opened. God had been subtly guiding us, steering us to bring us to becoming dissatisfied with the world/church and desiring/seeking the real truth. It's not like God is drafting us into His army, but moving/creating in us a desire for Him, so we will gladly volunteer to serve Him.

Deu 30:15  "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,

Deu 30:19  I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

God puts before us these choices and we choose what He knew (foreknowledge) we would, but it is our decision. The circumstances and who we are make it obvious to Him what we will do, I do not believe He wants us to feel coerced, but convinced in our own mind. Everybody that hears this truth does not stick with it and endure to the end, of course He knows who will and who won't... it's like the parable of the sower and the seed, many drop out before the race is finished for all kinds of reason as in the parable.

God knows how this will play out with each of us, and there are a few that are so very strongly dedicated to serving God that will endure to the end. but that is exactly how He wants it. Only the most devoted will serve in His kingdom, all the rest fall by the wayside. We see when Jesus went to visit Mary and Martha, Mary chose Jesus, to sit and listen to what He had to say, while Martha, was rushing around taking care of the business at hand...

Luke 10:41  And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things.
v. 42  But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her."

Jesus didn't force either to do as they did, but I'm sure He knew them and what they would do. So it is with us, Christ wants those that will be totally dedicated to Him, there are only a few that can do that in this world. Thinking of the number out of all the called/church that have their eyes opened to see and believe these precious truths is so very small, but as in the parable shows that number gets smaller still. So many embrace these truths when they first hear them, but so few endure to the end. That is the choice that some make, but there will be consequences for rejecting what so few have ever had a chance to see/hear.

It like the parable of the man that went to a far country and gave his servants talents to use until He returned and then they had to give account to him. The ones that had used their talents wisely to get an increase or I think you could say to to bare fruit, these were rewarded. Now there was one that buried his talent and did not use it... he made his choice and will suffer the consequences.

Mat 25:24  "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
v. 25  And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.'
v. 26  "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.
v. 27  So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest.
v. 28  So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
v. 29  'For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.
v. 30  And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Luke 12:47  And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

God reveals these wonderful truths to so few, "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life" we should be greatly honored and praise His glorious name that we are so fortunate as we will be held accountable.

Heb 10:31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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se7en

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 06:43:25 PM »

Rick,

As you already know brother, this is not commonly taught in the church world, but nevertheless the truth of the scriptures...

God does not hold us accountable or responsible for anything done. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn't us who commits any sin we commit. It is rather "a law working in our members... It is not I that do it."

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me... the law of sin and death."

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Who sustains that law "in our members"? The person who sustains "the law of sin and death... in our members" is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that "law of sin and death"? Here He is:

Jas 4:12  There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in saying that you shall give an account and saying you are accountable. The one places responsibility on us, while the other simply has us giving an account of what God has worked through us.

We do give an account of all things, but this account (word) is to say: "You God work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

Oh, and don't forget brother... this is not something that only takes place for the elect in the future, as Kat was saying... judgment rather takes place within us now, as judgment has now come upon the house of God, who's temple you are. This is the one mind/judgment/Word/teaching that has come upon the elect... "God, you work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

I hope this has helped.
~Se7en
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~Se7en

Mike Gagne

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 08:13:28 PM »

Seven, are you saying that it isn't really me who sins? That my carnal heart does what ever it wants and I am not Accountable?
 
Well for me it isn't like that,  I sin willingly and when I do God holds me accountable by judgement, and when I choose not to sin I do it willingly.  God gave me a carnal heart and yes he is responsible and that carnal heart is the  cause of my sins but I do them willingly and thats what makes me accountable and when I chose not to sin that also is me willingly make the choice not to sin, but that choice was caused  through His Righteous Judgements. He gave me the carnal heart and that makes Him responsible and as you can see that when I willingly choose to do right it was because He was responsible and held me accountable and through much doing the things I will not to do He changes my way of thinking and thats  why Paul said that.  Yes it is the carnal heart of man that does sin and I just happen to have one ( carnal heart that is ) and I am accountable for mine for the purpose of learning righteousness!!
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Mike Gagne

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 08:21:17 PM »

P S

I can do something and infact I do all day long, I willingly make choices and God does not force me to make the choices I do....
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 09:54:25 PM »

Rick,

As you already know brother, this is not commonly taught in the church world, but nevertheless the truth of the scriptures...

God does not hold us accountable or responsible for anything done. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn't us who commits any sin we commit. It is rather "a law working in our members... It is not I that do it."

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me... the law of sin and death."

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Who sustains that law "in our members"? The person who sustains "the law of sin and death... in our members" is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that "law of sin and death"? Here He is:

Jas 4:12  There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in saying that you shall give an account and saying you are accountable. The one places responsibility on us, while the other simply has us giving an account of what God has worked through us.

We do give an account of all things, but this account (word) is to say: "You God work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

Oh, and don't forget brother... this is not something that only takes place for the elect in the future, as Kat was saying... judgment rather takes place within us now, as judgment has now come upon the house of God, who's temple you are. This is the one mind/judgment/Word/teaching that has come upon the elect... "God, you work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

I hope this has helped.
~Se7en

Here's something you rarely hear in church.  EVIL is not a synonym for SIN.  Try to understand the difference between the two.  In addition, GOOD and RIGHTEOUSNESS are not synonyms.  It's flabby preacher-speak to make them mean the same thing.

 Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it (do what?  Evil or sin?) , but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it (do what?  Evil or sin?), but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Those with SIN in them, do the Evil they would not, and don't do the good they would.  That's the "Law".  Even if they don't want to do "EVIL", they do.  That's the LAW.

I'm out on a limb with THIS statement, but God Himself (in whom there IS no sin), does EVIL.  What chance do WE have, weak as we are in this flesh (in which there dwells no good thing)?  We have little to no chance until these BODIES are changed.  The difference is, that God DOES the good He "would do" and the evil He "would do".  He is able.  We are not.  He has no 'sin', weakness, ignorance, ineffectiveness.  We do.     

I've seen this poor passage dragged up on so many occasions to prove some point.  I'll just say this:  If, in a person, "to will" is NOT "present", he or she cannot understand what Paul is talking about here.

God is responsible for everything that happens in His creation.  Furthermore, He TAKES responsibility.  He died for us, while we were yet sinners.  He advocates for us and understands us, while we are weak.  He gives power to us who have no power, and faith to those who have no faith.

 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 02:42:55 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lilitalienboi16

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 10:04:35 PM »

Man is accountable because he desires to sin when he chooses to do so and requires little convincing to do it. Man volunteers. This is by design of God who created man with a heart too weak to resist temptation the majority of the time without His divine influence upon it (grace). Our carnal minds which were also by design of God make obedience and knowing Him impossible. God takes responsibility for this design by assuring us that every last vessel of clay marred in His hands will be made new. He declares His love and  His responsibility by showing the world that He will die for their sins too.

So even though our salvation rests entirely with God, I still see us as being accountable because we really are the ones choosing. We really are living, experiencing, and learning as God drags us to Himself so that we can inherit the glorious destiny He has planned for His children--For His creation.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:10:22 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 11:43:10 PM »

Rick,

As you already know brother, this is not commonly taught in the church world, but nevertheless the truth of the scriptures...

God does not hold us accountable or responsible for anything done. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn't us who commits any sin we commit. It is rather "a law working in our members... It is not I that do it."

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me... the law of sin and death."

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Who sustains that law "in our members"? The person who sustains "the law of sin and death... in our members" is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that "law of sin and death"? Here He is:

Jas 4:12  There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in saying that you shall give an account and saying you are accountable. The one places responsibility on us, while the other simply has us giving an account of what God has worked through us.

We do give an account of all things, but this account (word) is to say: "You God work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

Oh, and don't forget brother... this is not something that only takes place for the elect in the future, as Kat was saying... judgment rather takes place within us now, as judgment has now come upon the house of God, who's temple you are. This is the one mind/judgment/Word/teaching that has come upon the elect... "God, you work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

I hope this has helped.
~Se7en

Rom 14:12  So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

1Peter 4:5  They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

Heb 4:13  And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

2Co 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

We are accountable for our actions because we choose to make them, though God is ultimately responsible for the choices we make, as it is His intention that we make the choices we do. But we give account to Christ and then must "learn righteousness," but how do we get to that?  We must repent of wrong doings, repentance is admitting guilt and then to be changed/converted.

Acts 3:19  Repent(G3340) therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Acts 26:20  but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent(G3340), turn to God, and do works befitting repentance (G3341).

G3340 repent - to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.
G3341 repentance - (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.

Eze 18:30  "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent(H7725), and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.

H7725 repent - to return, turn back.

Eze 36:26  I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Eze 36:31  Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Here are a couple of emails.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ----------------------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Chris:

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT! 

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore ACCOUNTABLE.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4181.0.html -----------

Primarily, we must repent of our "carnal minds" which HATE God (I realize that most people do not believe that they ever hated God, but by their disobedience, they prove that they did), which are at the root cause of all our other sins. We repent of not only what we have done wrong, but the reason why we did wrong in the first place.  The human heart which is the seat of our emotions and morality or lack thereof, "is deceitful above all things and exceedingly WEAK--who can know it" (Jer. 17:9, Jewish Publication Society), Although all will be saved, not one will be saved until he repents of his sins, accepts Jesus Christ as the Saviour of his soul, and learns to live a godly life.
         
        Ask God to grant to you repentance ("Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?" Rom. 2:4).

         
        God be with you,
        Ray
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 12:06:29 AM by Kat »
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Wittenberg

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2016, 06:14:29 PM »

Every sin I commit on earth will be further proof of how much God loves me when I receive that forgiveness. We will all have evidence of Gods love for us on judgement day. Where there is much forgiveness there is much love.
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Mike Gagne

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 08:16:35 PM »

Every sin I commit on earth will be further proof of how much God loves me when I receive that forgiveness. We will all have evidence of Gods love for us on judgement day. Where there is much forgiveness there is much love.

Isa 43:25  I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more

I believe your sins are already for given. 

Life in the Spirit

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
 
It is Judgement day for the house of God

R.P and J


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Wittenberg

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 08:20:35 PM »

Yes our sins are already forgiven. But in my present state I don't fully grasp the greatness of that truth. When I understand in excruciating detail my sins, I will in excruciating detail know God's love for me.
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Mike Gagne

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2016, 08:33:35 PM »

  That is why I have no condemnation why I sin, When His righteous Judgements are in the world ( mikes carnal heart ) will learn righteous.
 
 Isa 43:25  and will not remember thy sins.
why will he not remember my sins?
 
1Co 13:5 Love taketh not account of evil;


Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
 
Actually he causes mike to pluck out and throw away that old heart and he is replacing it with a new heart that understands righteous
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 08:38:25 PM by Michael G »
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Wittenberg

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2016, 08:47:07 PM »

I don't know how to say this so bare with me: the point of existence isn't to live sinless, the point is to become like God. I hope I remember my sinning ways for eternity, so I can see the forgiveness for eternity.

I read a quote this week and put some thought into it, it's not scripture but it blessed me nonetheless. "Suffering forgotten isn't suffering." When I sin, I suffer. My sinning ways are my Egypt experience or my captivity. If I forget my suffering, will I appreciate my deliverance?
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Mike Gagne

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2016, 08:49:42 PM »

Writtenburg, I understand how you feel, for the last nine months i was decorating my veins with a little steel pin, hadn't done that in ten years. But I am not condemned over it. As a brother has said from this site, Jesus is just getting me better at His Good works. Maybe when Jesus has completed that part of His Good work in me I might never decorate again with those pins and the thoughts of my heart that willingly caused me to do those things will no longer be able to go against His Good works. There was learning for me there, not condemnation.

Glory to God

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Wittenberg

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Re: You will give an account , so says the bible.
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2016, 09:10:14 PM »

I'm blessed to hear that. I asked God this week to change me, He said He will, but didn't give a time frame. I guess I'll wait. Be blessed
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