> General Discussions
You will give an account , so says the bible.
rick:
well, I must admit , this is not something I'm looking forward to and would love to elude this day. But that is what the bible says,like it or not.
What purpose is there in having to give an account of all I've done in the course of my life.
Well no doubt there is a very good reason for this but none the less, it seems more like to me a dreadful thing to do, ie have not lived a righteous life.
There is no possible case I could make to all knowing loving wise creator. The bible says if you ask to be forgiven He is faithful and just to forgive , I do wonder if I will be required to give an account for those things I did ask forgivness for however there are things I've done that are no longer in my memory but I must say when things creep back into my memory that are not right I always ask for forgiveness concerning those things too.
probably no wisdom in saying You Lord have made me spiritually weak and could not help myself because who is the clay to say to the Potter why have you made me so.
That's a road I wish not to go down. So and account I shall give but the truth is where would one even start ? oh boy.
God bless all.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Rick on January 28, 2016, 06:23:54 PM ---well, I must admit , this is not something I'm looking forward to and would love to elude this day. But that is what the bible says,like it or not.
What purpose is there in having to give an account of all I've done in the course of my life.
Well no doubt there is a very good reason for this but none the less, it seems more like to me a dreadful thing to do, ie have not lived a righteous life.
There is no possible case I could make to all knowing loving wise creator. The bible says if you ask to be forgiven He is faithful and just to forgive , I do wonder if I will be required to give an account for those things I did ask forgivness for however there are things I've done that are no longer in my memory but I must say when things creep back into my memory that are not right I always ask for forgiveness concerning those things too.
probably no wisdom in saying You Lord have made me spiritually weak and could not help myself because who is the clay to say to the Potter why have you made me so.
That's a road I wish not to go down. So and account I shall give but the truth is where would one even start ? oh boy.
God bless all.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick,
I'm thinking you are referring to this verse:
2 Cor 5:9-11
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Romans 14:9-11
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Do we not stand now before the judgement seat of Christ? Is that not what Gehenna is? Do we not take into account our actions and cast off the part of the body which is unprofitable. Have we not volunteered now to be judged so that we are not condemned with the world?
1 Corinthians 11:31-32
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
So let us run the race with all that we have so as to attain the crown of life. So that we are not ashamed at His coming and may stand in the fire before Him.
Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."
Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
That's how I see it. Everyday we are being judged. We stand before the judgment seat of Christ daily and He works in us to judge ourselves and becoming one with the fire. One with Him.
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
God bless,
Alex
rick:
Hi Alex.
Scripture is quite clear that all will ( stand ) before the judgement seat of Christ and give account.
I understand we are now being judge or better put going through the lake of fire but I thinking ( stand ) is either a physical thing or its symbolic.
Sometimes, out of nowhere comes a memory of some kind of wrong doing, of course as God brings to mind these things, I ask forgiveness.
Can this be considered standing before the judgement seat of Christ ? Im not sure how to understand this , could it be sybolic , Im not sure.
God bless.
Kat:
Here is where Ray spoke on the judgment of the elect.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm --------------------
"For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22).
And so, The Judgment, the High Council, Gehenna fire, and prison, are the Judgments of Jesus Christ, and no one else. They are His SPIRITUAL JUDGMENTS. And since they are spiritual, few indeed, have even a clue as to what they are and how they are administered. Jesus said if one of His disciples is angry with a brother, they would be in danger of the Judgment. Judgment (Gk: krisis-Tribunal, justice, divine law). Jesus has such a tribunal:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad" (II Cor. 5:10).
"But why do you judge thy brother? or why do you set at naught your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat [Gk: bema-- 'tribunal, dais] of Christ" (Rom. 14:10).
Now then, when "must we all appear before the judgment sea of Christ?" When the whole world appears before it? NO. Let's read the verse:
"For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
Do we for the first time appear before the dais of Christ when the rest of the world appears before His dais? No, of course not. If we blow our knee to Christ for the first time in the White Throne Judgment with the rest of the world, we won't be in the kingdom of God.We had better be "bowing the knee to Jesus" right NOW.
"...Behold now is the accepted time; Behold, now is the day ['a day'-Rotherham, Diaglott, Young's, Concordant] of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2).
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).
"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed" (Rom. 13:11).
"Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy" (I Pet. 2:10).
"For if we would judge ourselves [now] we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [later] with the world [later in the Great White Throne Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).
"For the TIME IS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the House of God..." (I Pet. 4:17).
"...for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10).
There can be no argument against the fact that God's Elect are to "bow their knee" NOW in this Church age or we will find ourselves in the next age when, "Because He has appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." Acts 17:31). During our calling, we stand before the Judgment of Jesus and give an account daily of the works done in our flesh. How do we actually do this? Paul instructs us: "For if we would judge ourselves..." (I Cor. 15:11:31). This is how we are to be judged.
Notice how Paul's statement is in perfect agreement with that of Jesus: "And if your right eye offend you, [you] pluck it out... And if your right hand offend you, [you] cut it off..." (Matt. 5:29-30).
Isn't that amazing? That's how Jesus Judges US. He helps us judge OURSELVES! It is voluntary. But if we do not volunteer to judge ourselves, guess what? "...for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish [voluntarily] and not that your whole body should be cast [Gk: ballo-'throw violently or intensely' against your will] into Gehenna [fire]" (Ver. 30)
"For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged... we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).
In God's due time, all humanity will voluntarily desire with their whole heart to be a member of the Family of God. No one will be forced in or out of God's Family.
--------------------------------------------------------------
But there is more to it, the judgment on the chosen few now is their second death, that all must endure, as it implies in Hebrews. Here is is more where Ray spoke on that.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm -------------------
Now get ready for a real revelation. There are two mysteries in Heb. 9:27 when applied to God's Elect:
1.what and when is the "ONCE to die?"
2.what and when is the "after this JUDGMENT?"
We will take up the Elect's Judgment part of this verse first.
We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.
Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."
For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see.
v
The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die DAILY ['daily am I dying'--Concordant Version]" (I Cor. 15:31).
"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed ['we are put to death'--Concordant Version] all the DAY LONG; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:36).
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life ['die'] for my sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25).
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live [Paul was spiritually dead, 'crucified,' yet he still lived 'now... in the flesh' and was growing spiritually in Christ] in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
v
Now for the second part of the Heb. 9:27 riddle: When and how do God's Elect die "ONCE" before their SECOND death Judgment? Some of you should already be ahead of me with all the hints I have given you, but for the rest who haven't figured it out yet, you will maybe feel a little embarrassed when you see the answer, so here it is:
"Know ye not [no, of course the majority of Christendom 'knows not,' and that is why the physical aspects of baptism is so important to them...] ...know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into DEATH" (Rom. 6:3-4).
There is the answer to how God's Elect must "once die" before their "Second death Judgment."
The carnal world dies when they breathe their last and go down into the grave. God's Elect die when they are "baptized into death.". After resurrection from the dead, the world will enter into Judgment. And what about us--God's Elect? When do we enter into Judgment? Same way, when we are resurrected from the dead through baptism.
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection" (Rom. 6:4).
But we are not literally resurrected to immortality as Jesus was, when we are raised from the dead after being baptized into JESUS, are we? No, not literally, that is why Paul says we are to, "reckon you also yourselves to be dead."
"Likewise r-e-c-k-o-n you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11).
The Greek word for "reckon" means "to estimate, conclude, impute, reason, reckon, suppose, think." It is not necessary to "reckon" something that is literally a present reality. In the future we will literally be free from all sin and literally have immortality in resurrection, but for now we can just "reckon" it.
This death is not a literal, physical death, but it is a REAL death, and it is most important:
"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him" (Rom. 6:08).
Notice also that in addition to being baptized into Christ's death, we are also "buried." True, this is figurative language, but it is true language. We truly are not only crucified with Christ, and die with Christ, but we are also buried with Him. THIS IS THE FIRST DEATH OF THE ELECT BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH IN JUDGMENT BY FIRE.
How sad it is that billions of people are eager to be baptized in water, but do not know what it means to be "baptized into Jesus Christ." If people want to be baptized in water, fine, but if they are not at the same time "baptized into Jesus Christ," which means "baptized into death," then they only go down dry and come up wet--little else changes in their lives.
Remember that the Lake of fire IS death, but death only to those things which are to be no longer. Are there to be people after the Judgment? Yes. Well then people will not be literally killed or annihilated in this judgment by fire. How would God ever be "ALL in all" (I Cor. 15:28)?
--------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lauriellen:
I just had a thought while reading this. It would seem to me that we can not choose to be baptized any more than we can choose to be chosen as one of the elect. When I attended our local Baptist church, I made a decision at one point to be 'baptized' and join the church. It seems pretty absurd now that I think of it. Only Jesus can make that determination and only at His appointed time. Once again, it proves how futile and useless our own physical efforts to attain something that can only be accomplished thru the spirit.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version