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You will give an account , so says the bible.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: se7en on February 02, 2016, 06:43:25 PM ---Rick,
As you already know brother, this is not commonly taught in the church world, but nevertheless the truth of the scriptures...
God does not hold us accountable or responsible for anything done. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn't us who commits any sin we commit. It is rather "a law working in our members... It is not I that do it."
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me... the law of sin and death."
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Who sustains that law "in our members"? The person who sustains "the law of sin and death... in our members" is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that "law of sin and death"? Here He is:
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in saying that you shall give an account and saying you are accountable. The one places responsibility on us, while the other simply has us giving an account of what God has worked through us.
We do give an account of all things, but this account (word) is to say: "You God work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."
Oh, and don't forget brother... this is not something that only takes place for the elect in the future, as Kat was saying... judgment rather takes place within us now, as judgment has now come upon the house of God, who's temple you are. This is the one mind/judgment/Word/teaching that has come upon the elect... "God, you work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."
I hope this has helped.
~Se7en
--- End quote ---
Here's something you rarely hear in church. EVIL is not a synonym for SIN. Try to understand the difference between the two. In addition, GOOD and RIGHTEOUSNESS are not synonyms. It's flabby preacher-speak to make them mean the same thing.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it (do what? Evil or sin?) , but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it (do what? Evil or sin?), but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Those with SIN in them, do the Evil they would not, and don't do the good they would. That's the "Law". Even if they don't want to do "EVIL", they do. That's the LAW.
I'm out on a limb with THIS statement, but God Himself (in whom there IS no sin), does EVIL. What chance do WE have, weak as we are in this flesh (in which there dwells no good thing)? We have little to no chance until these BODIES are changed. The difference is, that God DOES the good He "would do" and the evil He "would do". He is able. We are not. He has no 'sin', weakness, ignorance, ineffectiveness. We do.
I've seen this poor passage dragged up on so many occasions to prove some point. I'll just say this: If, in a person, "to will" is NOT "present", he or she cannot understand what Paul is talking about here.
God is responsible for everything that happens in His creation. Furthermore, He TAKES responsibility. He died for us, while we were yet sinners. He advocates for us and understands us, while we are weak. He gives power to us who have no power, and faith to those who have no faith.
lilitalienboi16:
Man is accountable because he desires to sin when he chooses to do so and requires little convincing to do it. Man volunteers. This is by design of God who created man with a heart too weak to resist temptation the majority of the time without His divine influence upon it (grace). Our carnal minds which were also by design of God make obedience and knowing Him impossible. God takes responsibility for this design by assuring us that every last vessel of clay marred in His hands will be made new. He declares His love and His responsibility by showing the world that He will die for their sins too.
So even though our salvation rests entirely with God, I still see us as being accountable because we really are the ones choosing. We really are living, experiencing, and learning as God drags us to Himself so that we can inherit the glorious destiny He has planned for His children--For His creation.
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
--- Quote from: se7en on February 02, 2016, 06:43:25 PM ---Rick,
As you already know brother, this is not commonly taught in the church world, but nevertheless the truth of the scriptures...
God does not hold us accountable or responsible for anything done. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn't us who commits any sin we commit. It is rather "a law working in our members... It is not I that do it."
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me... the law of sin and death."
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Who sustains that law "in our members"? The person who sustains "the law of sin and death... in our members" is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that "law of sin and death"? Here He is:
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in saying that you shall give an account and saying you are accountable. The one places responsibility on us, while the other simply has us giving an account of what God has worked through us.
We do give an account of all things, but this account (word) is to say: "You God work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."
Oh, and don't forget brother... this is not something that only takes place for the elect in the future, as Kat was saying... judgment rather takes place within us now, as judgment has now come upon the house of God, who's temple you are. This is the one mind/judgment/Word/teaching that has come upon the elect... "God, you work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."
I hope this has helped.
~Se7en
--- End quote ---
Rom 14:12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
1Peter 4:5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
We are accountable for our actions because we choose to make them, though God is ultimately responsible for the choices we make, as it is His intention that we make the choices we do. But we give account to Christ and then must "learn righteousness," but how do we get to that? We must repent of wrong doings, repentance is admitting guilt and then to be changed/converted.
Acts 3:19 Repent(G3340) therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Acts 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent(G3340), turn to God, and do works befitting repentance (G3341).
G3340 repent - to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.
G3341 repentance - (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.
Eze 18:30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent(H7725), and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
H7725 repent - to return, turn back.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.
Isa 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Here are a couple of emails.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ----------------------
[Ray Replies]
Dear Chris:
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore ACCOUNTABLE.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4181.0.html -----------
Primarily, we must repent of our "carnal minds" which HATE God (I realize that most people do not believe that they ever hated God, but by their disobedience, they prove that they did), which are at the root cause of all our other sins. We repent of not only what we have done wrong, but the reason why we did wrong in the first place. The human heart which is the seat of our emotions and morality or lack thereof, "is deceitful above all things and exceedingly WEAK--who can know it" (Jer. 17:9, Jewish Publication Society), Although all will be saved, not one will be saved until he repents of his sins, accepts Jesus Christ as the Saviour of his soul, and learns to live a godly life.
Ask God to grant to you repentance ("Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?" Rom. 2:4).
God be with you,
Ray
Wittenberg:
Every sin I commit on earth will be further proof of how much God loves me when I receive that forgiveness. We will all have evidence of Gods love for us on judgement day. Where there is much forgiveness there is much love.
Mike Gagne:
--- Quote from: Wittenberg on February 06, 2016, 06:14:29 PM ---Every sin I commit on earth will be further proof of how much God loves me when I receive that forgiveness. We will all have evidence of Gods love for us on judgement day. Where there is much forgiveness there is much love.
--- End quote ---
Isa 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more
I believe your sins are already for given.
Life in the Spirit
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
It is Judgement day for the house of God
R.P and J
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