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You will give an account , so says the bible.

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rick:

--- Quote from: lauriellen link=topic=16501.msg14933understand149336 date=1454105023 ---I just had a thought while reading this. It would seem to me that we can not choose to be baptized any more than we can choose to be chosen as one of the elect. When I attended our local Baptist church, I made a decision at one point to be 'baptized' and join the church. It seems pretty absurd now that I think of it. Only Jesus can make that determination and only at His appointed time. Once again, it proves howYour Yahoo verification code is HDCZRCNJ futile and useless our own physical efforts to attain something that can only be accomplished thru the spirit.

--- End quote ---

Hi Lauriellen.

I agree with you we cannot choose Christ in and of ourselves, I've gotten hung up on the fact that we don't have free will or choice and so Im waiting for Christ to just to do it all, but Im coming to the understanding that if I have a desire for God which I do then He is most definitely is calling me.

I  / we have to make a choice and I choose Christ but I understand He chosen me first, I discovered I do not have the ability to live up to the standards of OUR God .

You might say I been in the wilderness with God going round in circles while God is showing me that He is sovereght and my need for Him.

I can do nothing on my own but with Christ I can do all things that He requires of me, if there is a desire in me to do something wrong I need to make a choice to avoid that wrong desire or thought, and the same goes for a desire to do something good, I must choose.

The difference I see is it takes the power of God to do what is right and so I don't take credit for anything because I understand that all glory belongs to God and not man.

God gives us the desire but we must choose, we are not robots we do have a part in Gods plan otherwise we would not be held accountable.

When I had done this thread I was thinking in the way of Christendom but the reply from both Alex and Kat put me in awe and just started thanking God for being so loving, gentle and kind to a sinner like me.

Its sometimes differcult for me because Chrisrendom has instilled in me a dread for God, but with Rays papers and this forum I am most definitely developing a love for our wonderful creator.

God has a plan, imagine that, I once thought good people went to heaven and bad people went to hell, wow what a difference the truth made in my life but I know I am receiving the truth because it is in the plan of God I received it

Its also in the plan of God I choose to follow Him and no one cant thrawt the plan of God so I follow within the scope He allows me to with the choises I make.

God bless everyone.

Kat:

This world is created in such a way that cause and effect is very much at play in all we do, but certainly our choices are what 'we' make, are our decisions and all the consequences that go with it. God knows those that He will choose, He knows the way we think and act... He has been dealing with us all our lives. He has brought/caused us to have serious questions/doubts about religion for many years before our eyes are opened. God had been subtly guiding us, steering us to bring us to becoming dissatisfied with the world/church and desiring/seeking the real truth. It's not like God is drafting us into His army, but moving/creating in us a desire for Him, so we will gladly volunteer to serve Him.

Deu 30:15  "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,

Deu 30:19  I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

God puts before us these choices and we choose what He knew (foreknowledge) we would, but it is our decision. The circumstances and who we are make it obvious to Him what we will do, I do not believe He wants us to feel coerced, but convinced in our own mind. Everybody that hears this truth does not stick with it and endure to the end, of course He knows who will and who won't... it's like the parable of the sower and the seed, many drop out before the race is finished for all kinds of reason as in the parable.

God knows how this will play out with each of us, and there are a few that are so very strongly dedicated to serving God that will endure to the end. but that is exactly how He wants it. Only the most devoted will serve in His kingdom, all the rest fall by the wayside. We see when Jesus went to visit Mary and Martha, Mary chose Jesus, to sit and listen to what He had to say, while Martha, was rushing around taking care of the business at hand...

Luke 10:41  And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things.
v. 42  But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her."

Jesus didn't force either to do as they did, but I'm sure He knew them and what they would do. So it is with us, Christ wants those that will be totally dedicated to Him, there are only a few that can do that in this world. Thinking of the number out of all the called/church that have their eyes opened to see and believe these precious truths is so very small, but as in the parable shows that number gets smaller still. So many embrace these truths when they first hear them, but so few endure to the end. That is the choice that some make, but there will be consequences for rejecting what so few have ever had a chance to see/hear.

It like the parable of the man that went to a far country and gave his servants talents to use until He returned and then they had to give account to him. The ones that had used their talents wisely to get an increase or I think you could say to to bare fruit, these were rewarded. Now there was one that buried his talent and did not use it... he made his choice and will suffer the consequences.

Mat 25:24  "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
v. 25  And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.'
v. 26  "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.
v. 27  So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest.
v. 28  So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
v. 29  'For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.
v. 30  And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Luke 12:47  And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

God reveals these wonderful truths to so few, "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life" we should be greatly honored and praise His glorious name that we are so fortunate as we will be held accountable.

Heb 10:31  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

se7en:
Rick,

As you already know brother, this is not commonly taught in the church world, but nevertheless the truth of the scriptures...

God does not hold us accountable or responsible for anything done. The apostle Paul makes it clear that it really isn't us who commits any sin we commit. It is rather "a law working in our members... It is not I that do it."

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

That is as plain as it can be made. It is twice repeated in verses 17 and 20. "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwells in me... the law of sin and death."

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Who sustains that law "in our members"? The person who sustains "the law of sin and death... in our members" is the person who is responsible and accountable for every thing that happens in this earth. Who sustains that "law of sin and death"? Here He is:

Jas 4:12  There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in saying that you shall give an account and saying you are accountable. The one places responsibility on us, while the other simply has us giving an account of what God has worked through us.

We do give an account of all things, but this account (word) is to say: "You God work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

Oh, and don't forget brother... this is not something that only takes place for the elect in the future, as Kat was saying... judgment rather takes place within us now, as judgment has now come upon the house of God, who's temple you are. This is the one mind/judgment/Word/teaching that has come upon the elect... "God, you work all things after the council of your own will, I can do nothing of myself, I am the work of your hands."

I hope this has helped.
~Se7en

Mike Gagne:
Seven, are you saying that it isn't really me who sins? That my carnal heart does what ever it wants and I am not Accountable?
 
Well for me it isn't like that,  I sin willingly and when I do God holds me accountable by judgement, and when I choose not to sin I do it willingly.  God gave me a carnal heart and yes he is responsible and that carnal heart is the  cause of my sins but I do them willingly and thats what makes me accountable and when I chose not to sin that also is me willingly make the choice not to sin, but that choice was caused  through His Righteous Judgements. He gave me the carnal heart and that makes Him responsible and as you can see that when I willingly choose to do right it was because He was responsible and held me accountable and through much doing the things I will not to do He changes my way of thinking and thats  why Paul said that.  Yes it is the carnal heart of man that does sin and I just happen to have one ( carnal heart that is ) and I am accountable for mine for the purpose of learning righteousness!!

Mike Gagne:
P S

I can do something and infact I do all day long, I willingly make choices and God does not force me to make the choices I do....

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