Hi Rocky, I thought I would show a few place Ray discussed what tribulation means.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2160.0 ------------
Contrary to all Christen doctrine of prophecy, there is no such thing as "THE" great tribulation. Great tribulation is, will be, and always was on God's chosen people. Paul tells us that it is through great tribulation and trial and suffering that we must enter the Kingdom of God.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1887.0.html ---
There is no such thing as "the Antichrist" or "THE antichrist." There is no such boogeyman in Scripture. Check your Bible. This is just another Christian fable as "THE great tribulation." You'll not find it in the Scriptures either.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ----------------------------------
Look at the first time "judgments" is used in the New Testament:
"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out!" (Rom. 11:33).
"Judgments" from God are wonderful things. Too bad we don't appreciate them.
And notice what John tells us in Revelation:
"And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Thy judgments" (Rev. 16:7).
It is not by escaping tribulation that we enter God's Kingdom (as in the unscriptural rapture theory), but by going "through much tribulation."
The phrase "The great tribulation" is used hundreds of thousands of times by the Church, and yet (just as there is no such thing as "THE antichrist") there is no such phrase in the Bible as "The great tribulation." Oh there is tribulation and great tribulation alright, but not just one called "The" tribulation.
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"Immediately after [does everyone understand the difference between 'before' and 'after?'] ...immediately after the tribulation of those days.... He [Jesus] shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet [I Cor. 15:52], and they shall gather together His elect [for the first time, I might also add] from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:29 & 31).
One other major point: Clearly this verse and others show that Christ returns "after the tribulation of those days." "But in those days, after the tribulation... shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His Elect..." (Mark 13:24 & 27).
And Jesus is said to come in wrath:
"...hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come..." (Rev. 6:16-17)
"And the seventh angel sounded... [the seventh trump is the last trump, I Cor. 15:52] ...and Thy wrath is come..." (Rev. 11:18)
The days of "great tribulation" end at Christ's presence, and the day of "His wrath" begins at His presence. They are two separate and different events, and different judgments on different people for different purposes. If you have not seen or do not understand the absolute differences in Scripture between tribulation and affliction versus wrath and indignation, then be sure to read my ten-page section dealing with it in detail, in my paper "Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory."
Tribulation is almost exclusively administered to God's people.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=14488.0 --------
hello Ray:
Below is a statement from your “Lake of Fire” series, part D4. I’m a little confused as to what you are trying to point out to the readers. Are you speaking of just the one tribulation, or is there more than one? At least three other bibles that speak of the great tribulation/affliction. Could you please explain?
The phrase "The great tribulation" is used hundreds of thousands of times by the Church, and yet (just as there is no such thing as "THE antichrist") there is no such phrase in the Bible as "The great tribulation." Oh there is tribulation and great tribulation all right, but not just one called "The" tribulation. Here how the unscriptural "Secret Rapture to Heaven" theory is taught:
Rev 7:14 And I have declared to him: "My lord, you are aware.And he said to me, "These are those coming out of the great affliction. And they rinse their robes, and they whiten them in the blood of the Lambkin."(CLV)
Rev 7:14 And I at once said to him—My lord! thou, knowest! And he said unto me—These, are they who come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb; (Rotherham)
Rev 7:14 And I say unto him, my lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (ASV).
Thanks,
Frank
Dear Frank:
Actually, there is no phrase: "THE great tribulation" in the King James which is the Bible used by most of the world throughout the last four hundred years. Although as you show, it could be argued that in Rev. 7:14 reference is made to [the] great tribulation at that particular time. My point is contained in my sentence that you quote: "Oh there is tribulation and great tribulation alright, but not just ONE called 'The' tribulation.
In fact, I go through every single use of the word "tribulation" in the entire Bible, and it should be evident to everyone that these dozen references are not speaking of the same "one" tribulation, but many tribulations on many different people at many different times in history. However, virtually all of these tribulations mentioned in Scripture are on God's elect, and that is what I cover in this study on tribulation. You ask if I am speaking of "just the one tribulation, or is there more than one?" Yes, of course there is more than one. How can God's elect go through some tribulation people termed "THE great tribulation," when God's elect live all through the ages, and not just during one specific period of time in which there is to be found, "THE great tribulation?"
The phrase "great tribulation" is found only three times in Scripture: Matt. 24:21, and in Rev. 2:22 and 7:14. Look at the two in Revelation: Does the "great tribulation" Rev. 2:22 have anything in common with the "great tribulation" of Rev. 7:14? No, of course not. Notice for example, that those who do not have the doctrine of Jezebel will be spared these burdens spoken of in verse 24. I hope this helps you understand better what I was teaching.
God be with you,
Ray
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Here are the verses Ray referred to.
Mat 24:21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be.
Rev 2:22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
Rev 7:14 And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who came out of the great tribulation and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.
The church is always looking for signs, a 'great tribulation' and other signs of the end of the age. But it's pretty clear that God's chosen will be in tribulation all down through their generations, "I die daily" (1 Cor 15:31) and "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered" (Rom 8:3). It is this "great tribulation" that the elect go through to prepare them, and in so doing they have "washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb."
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready."
v. 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
v. 9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."
Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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