Over throw God

[dave]

This just jumped out when I was reading one of Ray's emails. The emailer states, "Hell was not made for mankind but for the devil and his host of demons that joined him in his effort to overthrow God from his throne."

I maybe just having a blank in my memory, but does it say somewhere in the Bible that " for the devil and his host of demons that joined him in his effort to overthrow God from his throne."?

Is the devil or did the devil make an effort to overthrow God?  If so I can't find it. Thanks

[indianabob]

The churches have been teaching some such thing, but it is not true.
No one gets in Gods face and challenges God.
It would go no where and the angels all know it.
In Job, Satan requested of God if he could test Job and God allowed it.
BUT even Satan fears to disrespect God

[rick]

This just jumped out when I was reading one of Ray's emails. The emailer states, "Hell was not made for mankind but for the devil and his host of demons that joined him in his effort to overthrow God from his throne."

I maybe just having a blank in my memory, but does it say somewhere in the Bible that " for the devil and his host of demons that joined him in his effort to overthrow God from his throne."?

Is the devil or did the devil make an effort to overthrow God?  If so I can't find it. Thanks

Hi Micah,

No such thing happen or could happen, and man never fell in the garden of Eden.
The things Christendom teaches has little to no truth .

God is and always was and always be in control. God is sovereght .End of srory.

God bless.

[dave]

Thought not I was reaffirming. Thanks

[Kat]

Hi micah, I think the idea of Satan trying to overthrow God's throne may come from Revelation 12 where it speaks of war in heaven.

Rev 12:7  And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
v. 8  but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
v. 9  So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3212.0.html -------------

> can you explain the "war in heaven", since the bible tells us that we will be judging angels.

COMMENT:  This "war in heaven" has little to do with "judging angels."
When one believes that the statements in Revelation are literal, and that they
are in chronological order, that person's understanding will be about zero.  There
are many surprises in Revelation when we follow the instruction of understanding
that God gives us in the Scriptures. As long as we REFUSE to believe and obey
God's instruction, our spiritual understanding will be near zero.

Listen carefully:  This "war in heaven" is NOT LITERAL; it does not take place
in OUTER SPACE; it does not happen IN THE THRONE ROOM OF GOD; it does
not take place chronologically AFTER the wonder of a woman in Rev. 12:1, but BEFORE
the beast comes up out of the sea in 13:1; it does not interpret itself within its own verse; it is explained by OTHER Scripture; it is a SYMBOL; and it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which is the "spirit of prophecy"(19:10) and therefore is the "WORDS OF SPIRIT" of Jesus (John 6:63) for which we also need a SECOND WITNESS, etc., etc., etc.

If Revelation is a literal account of the events to happen in chronological order, then read a book by Hal Lindsey or Paul Crouch and you will understand the Book of Revelation--surely I josh!
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So this makes you wonder just what this "war in heaven" was symbolic of. So just to give more to think on here Ray addresses some of the symbolism of this a bit in the LOF article 13.

http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html ----------------------------------------------

And now for one of the most amazing Truths in all Revelation:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her [Mystery Babylon the Great], MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues[/b]" (Rev. 18:4).

GOD CALLS HIS PEOPLE OUT OF THE VERY CHURCH THAT HE CALLED THEM INTO!

"Many are called but few are chosen" (Matt. 22:14).

Few realize that there is a "church WITHIN the church." When God chooses us FROM AMONG the called, we become separate from their doctrines and sins. We are still "The Church of the Living God," but we are a peculiar people that no longer follows the traditions of men, which the many called who are building the house upon the sand continue to follow.

Therefore, WE WILL SEE THE BEAST that comes up out of the sea. We will be forced to WAR with the beast from the sea. And we will be OVERCOME by the wild beast. This really is serious business.
v
"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and [inhabitants] of the sea! ..." (Rev. 12:12).

Next notice that:
"And when the dragon saw that he was cast into the earth, he persecuted the WOMAN [the Church] which brought forth the man child [the manifest sons of God]" (Rev. 12:13).

Where is the Church? Does she dwell in the spiritual realms of heaven? No. Is she located in the sea? No. She dwells in the earth. She is higher than the sea, but lower than heaven; she dwells in the earth. These are the three realms spoken of in Revelation. If we can't get our thinking above the symbols themselves, we will never ever understand the book of Revelation.

The saints have left the earth in their spiritual walk with God. Those who are now 'spiritually-minded;' dwell in heaven—a much much higher realm than that of the earth. And yet... and YET, of the wild beast that comes out of the sea in Revelation 13, we are told:

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle and them that [spiritually] dwell in heaven. And it was given unto Him [the wild beast] to make WAR with the saints, and TO OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS" (Verses 6-7).

Now maybe you don't catch the significance of these verses. Here is a wild beast that not only has power, "...over ALL KINDREDS, and TONGUES, and NATIONS," but also can, "...make WAR with the SAINTS, and to OVERCOME THEM..." Is it possible for Satan to OVERCOME THE SAINTS? How can this be? Where? Show me?

"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because GREATER is He [Jesus] that is in you, than he [Satan] that is in the world" (I John 4:4).

Does this verse sound like there is some wild beast OUT THERE somewhere, who can make a mockery of this verse, because this wild beast really can "...make WAR with the saints, and to OVERCOME them?"
v
This wild beast from the sea is the only thing in all Revelation that "makes war with the saints" AND "OVERCOME them." Seven times in Rev. 2 & 3 were are told to OVERCOME seven categories of sins. Yet here we read that it is the saints themselves that are overcome. Let's make some sense out of all this.
v
It is at this pivotal time in our walk with God, when our spiritual house has fallen, and we are alone standing on the sand of the sea, that the wild beast from the sea... makes war with the saints (that's US) and OVERCOMES them (this wild beast overcomes us because "WHO is able to make war with him?") (Rev. 13:4). Even we, who are saints of God, are NO MATCH for "the WILD BEAST that comes up out of sea."

But I have already shown you that God gives us a way out of this dilemma. We are to COME OUT OF HER and REPENT of leaving our first love, and for building our spiritual house upon the sand.
v
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the wild beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, WHICH IS POURED OUT WITHOUT MIXTURE..." (Rev. 14:9-10).

Talk about finding oneself between a rock and hard place!

Apparently we can either be AT WAR with this wild beast, though we were just warned: "...who is ABLE to make war with him"? Or, we can partake of "THE WRATH OF GOD poured out without mixture..." Either prospect is extremely frightening. But I would rather be on God's side than on the side of the wild beast.
v
Everything in this book [Revelation] is part of Christ's testimony, "which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME." It is needful that we read several verses now to catch the significance of, from what perspective it was that John wrote this prophecy:

"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ ['which IS, WAS, and WILL BE'].

I was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord's day, and heard BEHIND ME a great voice, as of a trumpet [a trumpet is a symbol for a POWERFUL MESSAGE],

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are [they ALREADY existed at the time that John writes about them] in Asia...

And I TURNED to see the voice that spoke with me. And BEING TURNED, I saw seven golden candlesticks." (Rev. 1:9-12).

Ah yes, John heard this trumpet (or message) "behind him" and therefore, had to TURN BACK in order to see, hear, and understand the message! And so John writes about the things he sees "BEHIND" him (1:10), and "...things which must be HEREAFTER."

And so it is in this context that John said: "I stood upon the sand of the sea..." Did you not notice what we just read concerning John and ourselves? Let's read it again:

"I John, who ALSO am YOUR BROTHER, and COMPANION IN TRIBULATION [persecution], AND IN THE KINGDOM AND PATIENCE [endurance] of Jesus Christ..." (Rev. 1:9).

The very elect are all "companions and brothers" in our quest for the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Where Jesus walked, WE WILL WALK. Where John walked, WE WILL WALK. Where John stood, we all have stood or will yet stand.

We all must walk the walk that Jesus Christ walked! We must all "take up our cross." We must all

"OVERCOME... even as I [Jesus] also OVERCAME ['overcame the WORLD,' John 16:33], and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

I suggest you read this lake of fire series again: http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM

("How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer")

Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how a perfect Lucifer changed himself into Lucifer the Devil.

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isa. 14:-12-14).

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus says the Lord God; Thou seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created. You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you"

"By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, and they may behold you" (Ezek. 28:12-17).

This, we are told, is a perfect description of how perfect Lucifer, a shining light bringing archangel/cherub, became Satan the Devil. Is there any truth to this theory? We will see.

This theory suits Satan just fine, and more so, it fits Christendom even 'finer.' With this theory (or more correctly 'hypothesis'), Christendom has the perfect solution to how they can justifiably consign billions of humans to an eternal lake of fire. With their "free will" firmly established in their deceived minds, Christendom can now teach the world that Satan CHOSE to do evil and has not repented, and most of mankind has also CHOSEN to do evil and not repent, therefore they are all thrown into an eternal lake burning with fire, and God is not the least bit responsible.

The Church believes it has accomplished a most marvelous thing: they have gotten God off the hook of responsibility for all of the sickness, disease, pain, suffering, sin, evil, terrorism, and death in the world. You see, without free will, God could never know who is for Him and who is against Him—it's the only way, the only "fair" way, and God is fair and God is good. Doesn't this make good carnal sense, and everyone is happy? It is rank heresy at the highest level; that is what it is!

Prepare yourself for a revelation: Satan was never perfect and then decided by his phantom free will to become a devil, neither has a single human started out perfect and then decided by his free will to become a sinner! Now I am well aware of the fact that people are deceived about these things, as was I. But the Scriptural truth of these matters will set us free from centuries of unscriptural traditions. The problem with this "Lucifer fell" theory is twofold: poor translation and poor interpretation. Let's go through it.

God bless,
Alex

[AwesomeSavior]

When Jesus Christ returns to planet Earth for His millennial reign, what will have happened to Satan?

[Kat]

When Jesus Christ returns to planet Earth for His millennial reign, what will have happened to Satan?

Rev 20:1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
v. 2  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
v. 3  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[dave]

Folks please understand I personally don't believe in any over throw. As I said I was reading an email sent to Ray and Ray answered. I figured I'd ask, Ray did not go into detail. I was looking for some other info that someone else might have. I apologize that I led you to offer me information that I am quite aware of.  but thanks

[indianabob]

Micah,

I'm sure that this refresher has helped many others who needed it at this particular time.

All things work together for those who love God... So thanks, I-bob

[dave]

 

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Bob, I was reading over this thread and notice your statement, were underlined!

The churches have been teaching some such thing, but it is not true.
No one gets in Gods face and challenges God.
It would go no where and the angels all know it.
In Job, Satan requested of God if he could test Job and God allowed it.
BUT even Satan fears to disrespect God

. 

I think there is 2 witnesses right in these heres that say that God requested satan...

Job 1:7  And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9  Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10  Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11  But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12  And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Just thought I would bring this up because satan can do nothing of his own! He just goes to and fro in the earth, walking up and down in it...