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Author Topic: Experimenter  (Read 4145 times)

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lareli

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Experimenter
« on: February 16, 2016, 01:57:22 PM »

Anyone watch the movie 'Experimenter'? New movie, streaming on Netflix now.

Description-
In 1961, social psychologist Stanley Milgram (Peter Sarsgaard) conducts controversial experiments designed to measure conformity, conscience and free will.

What do you think about the findings of his experiments as they pertain to measuring free will? I didn't totally understand how it related to free will.. It seemed, to me, to be more of a measurement of authority worship... harming another human being for no other reason than, an authority figure told you to.

Fascinating movie non the less.
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I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

indianabob

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Re: Experimenter
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 11:39:38 PM »

Hi Largeli,
Haven't watched it yet.
Harming another human being on orders from an authority figure sounds a lot like Patriotism in its lowest form of expression. Humans do that a lot...
I- bob



Anyone watch the movie 'Experimenter'? New movie, streaming on Netflix now.

Description-
In 1961, social psychologist Stanley Milgram (Peter Sarsgaard) conducts controversial experiments designed to measure conformity, conscience and free will.

What do you think about the findings of his experiments as they pertain to measuring free will? I didn't totally understand how it related to free will.. It seemed, to me, to be more of a measurement of authority worship... harming another human being for no other reason than, an authority figure told you to.

Fascinating movie non the less.
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lareli

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Re: Experimenter
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2016, 02:02:46 PM »

Ya bob patriotism would definitely cause somebody to hurt someone for no reason other than 'orders'...

But in the case of these experiments it wasn't in a setting that involved patriotism or nationalism or even law.

2 people agree to take part in an experiment. They're told that the experiment is to test how people learn and if physical punishment (electric shock) is an effective means of getting a person to learn.

The 2 people are placed in separate rooms. 1 is designated as the 'teacher' and the other is designated as the 'learner'. The learner is strapped to a chair and has a device strapped to his arm which will deliver an electric shock upon the teachers command.

The teacher asks the learner questions and every time the learner gets the answer wrong the teacher is supposed to deliver a shock. The amount of volts goes up with each wrong answer.

The experiment is not actually about how someone learns though. And the designated 'learner' is not actually the subject of the experiment. The learner is helping to conduct the experiment.

The subject of the experiment is the teacher only. There's a man in a white lab coat who sits in the room with the teacher and observed the experiment. The teacher does not know that the experiment is actually about himself. He believes that the learner is the subject and that the experiment is about whether or not punishment is an effective means to get someone to learn.

The learner is never truly 'shocked' by the teacher but the teacher doesn't know that. The experiment is all about the teacher and his/her obedience to a perceived authority figure. The authority figure being the man in the white lab coat.

Now as the experiment gets going and the learner gets a few answers wrong and receives a few shocks.. The learner begins to yell in pain. As the wrong answers continue, the voltage of the shocks increases and the learner soon begins to yell 'stop! I don't want to do this anymore! Let me out of here!'

The teacher turns to the 'authority' figure and tries to stop the experiment but the authority figure instructs the teacher to continue.

The experiment is all about whether or not the teacher will stop the experiment or continue. The learner continues to say he wants to stop and even complains of a heart condition.. The learner soon stops talking or responding all together... Once the learner stops responding and stops answering questions.. The teacher again turns to the authority and pleads with him to go check on the learner to make sure he's not dead! The authority instructs the teacher to continue on and to treat an unresponsive answer as a wrong answer and continue to administer shocks which increase all the way up to 450 volts!

The findings of the experiment were consistent and showed that 50-65% of participants obeyed the authority figure and continued to administer shocks to the unresponsive learner all the way to the max 450 volts.

The experiment was duplicated in different parts of the world and among different age groups, male/female etc and the findings were consistent.

I believe these experiments were duplicated in the early 2000's and the results were the same.
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lareli

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Re: Experimenter
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2016, 02:29:45 PM »

The teacher was not under any obligation to complete the experiment. The teacher and learner were given payment in the form of a check at the beginning of the experiment and were told by the authority figure that the check belonged to the them whether they completed the experiment or not.

The teacher was not under the law or the threat of consequence of any kind if he chose to stop the experiment. The teacher would continue to deliver shocks not knowing if the learner had died or not, simply because someone who the teacher perceived to be an authority figure instructed him to do so.

The teacher would squirm, grimace, and appear to be obviously uncomfortable with what he was being instructed to do, but 50-65% of the time he/she would complete the experiment.

You can actually pull up clips on YouTube of actual footage from the original experiments from the 60's. It's fascinating and watching the movie taught me something about human nature and myself.

Here's a 2 minute clip of the experiment

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yr5cjyokVUs
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 02:36:05 PM by largeli »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Experimenter
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2016, 06:04:59 PM »

I've seen and read quite a bit about the experiment, but have not heard of or seen the movie before.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

indianabob

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Re: Experimenter
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2016, 08:15:57 PM »

Thanks for the explanation folks,

I didn't appreciate the experiment as I assumed that I would and quit before the end.
I also assume that I would be the one who quit early and gave back the payment in frustration at the mental cruelty of the whole process.

I bob
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