Here are a couple of places Ray spoke about this, the first is from notes of the 07 Nashville conference, the second is from the Bible study 'Was Christ Made Sin?'
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JESUS PROPHESIES HIS OWN SUFFERING AND DEATH
NEW REVISED STANDARD VERSION (Isaiah 52:13 to 53:12)
Why would God want to do all these things to His Own Son?
Why would Jesus volunteer to go through all these evils?
ONE REASON ONLY: "L-O-V-E"!
The Church stand: "Jesus died in our place and stead." Somebody had to die, either we or Jesus. We die ANYWAY!
Nonsense:
"Jesus didn’t die in our place and stead; Jesus died FOR US"! Yes Jesus died for our sins, but He didn’t need to. God made the rules ("without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins"). That’s God’s rule and He could have done it differently.How can God show the world that He loves the world?
God could not die. God cannot die. But He formed out of Himself a SON, and He could sacrifice His Son which is worse than dying oneself. GOD DIED FOR HIS CREATION.
That’s how He shows His love. "God so [thus—in this remarkable manner] loves the world that He gave His only begotten Son…" (John 3:16). "While we were yet sinners" (Rom. 5:08).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6719.0.html ---
Yes sin was imputed to Him in that… like this, did Christ sin? No. Did we sin? Yes. Is there a penalty? Yes. Christ said, I’ll take your sin and I’ll pay your penalty. Did now, Christ sin? No. Is He guilty of sin? No. He just said I’ll pay the penalty for them.
He died FOR us, the Bible says. He didn’t die in our place instead. He didn’t die so we don’t have to die. He died FOR us. That is a positive act. v
Jesus is Himself of His own volition volunteering to be an OFFERING for these debts. He is OFFERING [the verb] to be the OFFERING [the noun]. Jesus Christ said;
John 10:18 No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
Does it not say that? Did He have to die? He volunteered! But His Father said, okay I’m going to hold You to it. Now Jesus Christ has all these debts on His shoulders, trillions of dollars worth of debts, because He says I will take them, I will pay them. Did He at any place or time in His life incur those debts? No! Is He guilty of those debts that we all committed? No! Does He become our debt? Can we say now, ‘I didn’t commit any sins, He did? Did the Father ever say, since You volunteered to pay their debts, You’ve guilty of their debts? Did He ever say that?
Still using the analogy of Peter and Paul. Because Jesus Christ volunteers to pay our debts, does not mean that He incurred them or is guilty of them! How hard can that be? Well I tell you when you are spiritually blind as a bat, you’ll never see it. Because that idol of your heart will stand in the way. This is not rocket science, this is really easy spiritual lessons.
Jesus Christ never incurred a single debt in His life. He never was responsible for a debt. He never was guilty of a debt. He never became a debt. He became the One who offered - offering, do you see the connection of those two words. He offered to be the offering FOR the debts.
v
Our sin being like so many promissory notes or debts. Christ took all these IOUs, all these sins and said I’ll pay the debt. But the fact that He took all of those IOUs does that make Him guilty of those sins? Come on, of course not. He is going to pay them for us. Show me a Scripture that says Christ died for His own sin, where does it say that?
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1 Cor. 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
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For sure Christ’s sacrifice for sin is the topic of the immediate preceding verses to 2 Cor. 5:21;
2 Cor. 25:14 …if One (Christ) which died for all…
v. 15 And that He died for them…unto Him which died for them
v. 19 To wit [that is], that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them [but paying their sin debt FOR THEM, NOT having God’s wrath poured out on Himself because Christ Himself was sin, or guilty of sin, or had incurred a sin debt]…
v. 21 For [or because] He has made Him a sin OFFERING for us, who knew NO SIN… (v.21, Concordant Literal New Testament and other translations).
Christ was the Lamb of God, He is our Passover sacrifice for us and we learn from the Old Testament that the Passover Lamb was an offering.
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What was the Passover? It was a sin offering. So that’s what Christ was made, He was made a sin offering. He was not made sin.
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We did talk last week about how much your sin is worth as far as dollars go. Our sin being like so many promissory notes or debts. Christ took all these IOUs, all these sins and said I’ll pay the debt. But the fact that He took all of those IOUs does that make Him guilty of those sins? Come on, of course not. He is going to pay them for us.
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1Cor 15:3 …Christ died for OUR sins according to the Scriptures;
Gal 1:4 Who gave Himself for OUR sins…
Heb 1:3 …when he had by Himself purged OUR sins…
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1Peter 2:24 Who His own self bare OUR sins in His own body on the tree…
That’s how He did it, “His body.” The body was the offering. Christ did not sacrifice a carnal mind for our sins, He sacrificed His body. We are sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus (Heb. 10:10).
1John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for OUR sins… (Not His own.)
1John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for OUR sins.
1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away OUR sins.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Author
Topic: For us, or, in our place? (Read 3450 times)