> General Discussions
1 Cor 15:51
Dave in Tenn:
Kat, I just don't think you can state dogmatically that the elect will not be on the earth at the moment of His appearing. Even speaking "literally" (I hate that word), we have to suss out the "timeline" from several sources...no one scripture is it's own interpretation. Jesus is telling US to LOOK UP in Luke 21:28 when we see these things begin to happen, for our redemption draweth NIGH. Not YET, bu NIGH. Isn't it conceivable that, literally, we 'look up', and THEN Matthew 24:31 happens? There's no contradiction.
I think zvezda's reading of Isaiah 26:20 is in line with Scripture and with what Ray taught on the Elect escaping wrath and indignation.
Kat:
Yes Dave, I can see it as you said, that sequence does seem to fit, but there is still the elect meeting Him in the air, which does seem to happen before He puts His foot on the earth.
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
v. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Now I believe this to be an physical event, because it was actually a physical event when Jesus left the earth to return to heaven... no not to live in the clouds... but ascending up was the means He used to depart.
Acts 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
v. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
v. 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
It's hard to put all the Scripture up that apply to a subject every time you post, but I try to use the pertinent ones.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
zvezda:
--- Quote from: Kat on March 09, 2016, 01:25:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: zvezda on March 09, 2016, 11:45:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on March 09, 2016, 11:14:38 AM ---
--- Quote from: zvezda on March 09, 2016, 10:20:56 AM ---
Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
The elect will hide in their "chambers" until His wrath has passed, sort of like Noah and his family hiding in the ark.
They only need to hide for a little moment, so I am guessing the things in Luke 21:25, 26 won't take too long.
--- End quote ---
"My people" was the nation of Israel in the OT and later when Christ was on earth the Jews that crucified Him... isn't that who He is saying should hide from His coming wrath?
--- End quote ---
So the Jews will be able to hide and Jesus will spare them from His wrath? I thought only the elect would be spared?
--- End quote ---
Of course they cannot hide from Him, no more than any will. It's a figure of speak that implies the Jews should hide their face because they rejected their Savior when He was in the flesh.
--- End quote ---
I know they can't hide from Him. I don't think the verse (Isa 26:20) implies they are hiding from Him. They are just told to hide (escape) from the destruction that comes with His wrath. It's like Noah was hiding in the ark from all the destruction.
Kat:
--- Quote from: zvezda on March 09, 2016, 02:53:23 PM ---
I know they can't hide from Him. I don't think the verse (Isa 26:20) implies they are hiding from Him. They are just told to hide (escape) from the destruction that comes with His wrath. It's like Noah was hiding in the ark from all the destruction.
--- End quote ---
The elect just do not need to hide from Christ, they will be judging the world with Christ when He returns, they will be causing the 'destruction' of the carnal minds in the next age. Noah was not hiding on the ark... the Ark represents Christ and Noah was 'IN' It, as Christ is in us and we are in Him.
John 17:20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
v. 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
v. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
John 6:56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
Here is an email from Ray about the elect will judge with Christ.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4445.0.html ---------------
It just amazes me how utterly short-sighted Biblical scholars and theologians can be when they are locked into their pagan traditions. Jesus had a special REWARD/AWARD for all His followers. What was it? Heaven? NO. Eternal life? NO. All humanity will be given immortality which is in effect eternal, everlasting life.
So what is so special that only the CHOSEN FEW will receive it? It is ruling and reigning and judging with Jesus Christ! This reign is "eonian" or "age-lasting." It is decidedly NOT "eternal," as we are plainly told that it will END (I Cor. 15:25). Jesus rules only "UNTIL" He puts all enemies under His feet, at which time He hands over the reign of the Kingdom to His God and Father (Verses 27-28). All enemies will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS and ultimately be saved (Isa. 26:9, I Tim. 2:4, I Tim. 4:10, Phil. 2:9-11, Eph. 1:10, etc., etc., etc).
And so, those who do not quality to rule, reign, and judge with Christ, will themselves BE JUDGED. And judgment means to set things right. Hence "the [wicked] shall go away into everlasting [Gk: 'eonian'] punishment [Gk: 'chastisement']: but the righteous [the chosen Elect Few[ into life eternal [Gk: 'eonian' also]" (Matt. 25:46). Aionios is the adjective form of the noun aion. Aion means an "age." Aionios means that which pertains to an age. Eternus is a Latin word that surprisingly traces it etymology to the Greek word aion. Eternus never, ever meant "endless time" until hundreds of years after the Bible was completed and the Catholic Church decided that aions would be now taught to be "ENDLESS ages." As aion and aionios never meant endless, the word endless had to be affixed to aion and aionos in order to ever give it such a false and erroneous meaning.
The root of "kolasis" means "cutting off," as in pruning a tree. One prunes a tree to make it PRODUCE MORE FRUIT, not to kill it! The wicked are chastised (judged) for the period of Christ's reign and the Saints reign for the period of Christ's reign. Both periods are the same length--until their purpose has been accomplished. Simple, huh? And Scriptural as well. God will torture no one for all eternity. That is blasphemously insane!!
God be with you,
Ray
zvezda:
--- Quote from: Kat on March 09, 2016, 03:51:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: zvezda on March 09, 2016, 02:53:23 PM ---
I know they can't hide from Him. I don't think the verse (Isa 26:20) implies they are hiding from Him. They are just told to hide (escape) from the destruction that comes with His wrath. It's like Noah was hiding in the ark from all the destruction.
--- End quote ---
The elect just do not need to hide from Christ, they will be judging the world with Christ when He returns, they will be causing the 'destruction' of the carnal minds in the next age. Noah was not hiding on the ark... the Ark represents Christ and Noah was 'IN' It, as Christ is in us and we are in Him.
--- End quote ---
Of course the elect don't need to hide from Christ, like I said in my last post, they are not really hiding from Christ, they are just told to escape from His wrath and wait a little moment, then the wrath will pass and they will start judging the world with Christ.
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