Information between Ray and I

[rickylittleton]

A few years ago before Ray died, we were discussing some internment parts of what the black culture in this part of our country endured with. I told him the story of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment in which medical doctors came to Tuskegee and injected black men with syphilis so as to see the effects it had on block's than whites. The medical doctors told that they were being treated with the best of medicine when in fact they were given only solution that did nothing. This went on for 40 years until in the 70s a News Reporter got the story and reported it open to the public. Many men died, babies were born deformed, and there are kin folks that I have that have died a few years ago that were involve with this experiment. I know this has nothing to do with the subjects of the forums, but I feel that we need to know our Alabama history, and how the basis of men would go so low as to treat other men, who were made in the image of God would do.Now the days are getting evil as ever before, and there is no telling what's is going on behind our backs. It is only in our prayers to God, and our faith in the scriptural witting that gives us hope that all this evil of man will be over after while.   Your brother in Christ: Timothy

[lareli]

I've read a little about the Tuskegee experiments.

I don't know if it's Alabama history, or the history of what evils man is capable in general that is important. We are all the same species of evil man and we are all guilty of and capable of all.

We're told in Hebrews that strong meat belongs to those who exercise their discernment of good and evil. For this reason it may be wise to know our history and be able to discern good and evil. However I will admit that sometimes I get caught up in discerning the evil in mankind only. Perhaps because so many 'evils' of our past had been covered up or hidden from us until now with the Internet and free flow of information available to us. Now even as I write this I'm realizing that I have not focused on the discerning of 'good' as much as I should perhaps. I dunno.

[Kat]

Hi timothy, it's hard to believe what some humans are capable of doing to their fellow human being. But as largeli indicated this is the way of this world and nothing new for this evil age.  Not to diminish what you are talking about happened, but vile despicable acts are happening in this world continually. Here is a list that points out how human life has been eradicated in some of the greatest numbers in history.

Atrocities: The Top Deadliest Manmade Events in History

1. Second World War (Worldwide 1939-45) - Germany and Japan decide that the world would be a lot better place without all those damn foreigners.
Death Toll: 65 million (including the Holocaust in which approximately 11 million people were killed, and also included the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in which approximately one million were killed)

2. Genghis Khan (Asia: 1206-27) - The Mongols decides that the world would be a lot better place without all those damn foreigners.
Death Toll: 40 million

3. Mao Zedong (China: 1949-75) - Communist policies badly messed up China.
Death Toll: 40 million

4. Famines in British India (1769, 1876, 1896, 1943) - Colonial policies badly messed up India.
Death Toll: 27 million

5. Fall of the Ming Dynasty (China: 1635-62) - The pinnacle of Chinese civilization succumbed to internal rebellion and external invaders.
Death Toll: 25 million

6. Taiping Rebellion (China: 1850-64) - A messianic uprising of Chinese Christians.
Death Toll: 20 million

7. Stalin (Soviet Union: 1928-53) - The second most evil mustache in history.
Death Toll: 20 million

8. Mideast Slave Trade (ca. 700-1900) - It wasn't really like this.
Death Toll: 19 million

9. Tamerlane (Central Asia: 1370-1405) - A Mongol warlord tried a bit too hard to be like Genghis Khan.
Death Toll: 17 million

10. Atlantic Slave Trade (1452-1807) - Someone's got to do the dirty work.
Death Toll: 16 million

11. First World War (Europe: 1914-18) - Everyone in Europe fought a war to keep everyone else in Europe from getting too powerful.
Death Toll: 15 million

12. Conquest of the Americas (after 1492) - A wonderful New World, free for the taking... well, almost free for the taking...
Death Toll: 15 million

13. An Lushan Revolt (China: 755-763) - The frontier army of China turned against the central government.
Death Toll: 13 million

14. Xin Dynasty (China: 9-24) - China falls apart under a usurper.
Death Toll: 10 million

15. Congo Free State (1886-1908) - The heart of darkness.
Death Toll: 10 million

16. Russian Civil War (1918-22) - Like matter and antimatter, Communists and anti-Communists annihilated one another.
Death Toll: 9 million

17. Thirty Years War (Germany: 1618-1648) - Catholics and Protestants fought over control of Germany.
Death Toll: 7.5 million

18. Fall of the Yuan Dynasty (China: 1358) - Native Chinese threw out their Mongol overlords
Death Toll: 7.5 million

19. Fall of Rome (Europe: 395-455) - The end of civilization as we knew it.
Death Toll: 7 million

20. Chinese Civil Wars (1927-37, 1946-49) - After the monarchy fell, Communists, Nationalists and multiple warlords tried to sort out who was in charge.
Death Toll: 7 million

21. The Mahdi (Sudan: 1881-98) - A Muslim messiah appeared in the deserts along the upriver Nile.
Death Toll: 5.5 million

22. Time of Troubles (Russia: 1598-1613) - For awhile it seemed like everyone in Russia was claiming to be the missing Prince Dmitri.
Death Toll: 5 million

23. Aurangzeb (Northern India: 1681-1707) - The Mughal–Maratha Wars
Death Toll: 4.6 million

24. Vietnam War (1960-1975) - If we let one country go Communist, they all will.
Death Toll: 4.2 million

25. Three Kingdoms (China: 189-280) - Things fall apart. The center does not hold.
Death Toll: 4.1 million

26. Napoleonic Wars (1792-1815) - One man versus the World.
Death Toll: 4.0 million

27. Second Congo War (1998-2002) - Rwanda and Uganda chase rebels into Congo.
Death Toll: 3.8 million

28. Hundred Years War (1337-1453) - English kings claim the French throne for themselves.
Death Toll: 3.5 million

29. Gladiatorial Games (Rome: 264 BCE-435 CE) - We who are about to die salute you.
Death Toll: 3.5 million
http://www.bookofhorriblethings.com/ax01.html

I know that this list is of the highest number in death toil, but the individual despicable acts of evil were absolutely there and throughout history it has been ever ongoing.

[Mike Gagne]

Just rereading lake of fire series part 10 and it was this that came to mind for this post,

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these

Job 2:10  What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

Amo 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done

Hab 1:5  Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
Hab 1:6  For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs

Evil isn't good when we do it, but it is the Love of God for God is LOVE. Thats what I think

What do you think, is that the Love of God?

Michael

[Dennis Vogel]

What goes around comes around.

I believe God repeats history over and over. Tutankhamun looks black to me (but the topic controversial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy).

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Dennis, even though I hate that saying...   

What goes around comes around.

It seems to be true.

[jingle52]

I'm just wondering....of all those that died from when Adam was created to the future deaths until the age ends, where are we all going to fit on this planet? Those are huge numbers Kat showed us....
Do the verses below talk about a spiritual desert (mankind without a knowledge of God) or a physical place when we will be resurrected and everything brought back as it were before sin entered the world?

Isa 35:1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
Isa35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
Isa 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Just wondering,
Jingle

[Kat]

Hi Jingle, maybe those verse has a spiritual and physical meaning. What is for certain is that God knows exactly the number of people that will be living on this earth when He resurrects them and He has a perfectly thought out plan. We do not know what all He may bring about at His return, it does say there will be a "new earth" (2Peter 3:13; Rev 21:1). What will be 'new'? I guess whatever God wants there to be to fit the needs.

If you have ever looked at Goggle earth and scanned over the surface of the planet you would see there is a great amount of unused lands... the deserts are a good example.

Rev 22:3  And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

What could this be speaking of "no more curse"? Well right from Adam the ground was cursed.

Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.

Perhaps when that curse is removed the earth will produce a great abundance of food. We also know that feeding the multitudes is not a problem for God, as when Jesus supernaturally fed 5000 on very little. Also He can produce food literally from nothing as when He fed manna to all the Israelite tribes, estimated to be 2 million.

I just don't see a problem, God knows the end from the beginning, and the next age will be a time of His glorious reign.

Rev 21:1  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
v. 2  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
v. 3  And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
v. 4  And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[jingle52]

Thanks Kat, we are all really and truly looking forward to this new earth with Jesus as ruler and king!
I sometimes wonder what it will be like though, will we live under the stars in tents as the ancients did? Will we go back to the times of Adam and Eve with the innocence they had before they ate the fruit? I think about this often and was just wondering if anybody else has these thoughts (however silly they may seem) 

Jingle

[rickylittleton]

I want to thank all of my  family for so many responses to my topic: Information between Ray and I, the Tuskegee experience! I even learned many things from history I didn't know my self. Also I want apologized to Dennis for putting that subject in the wrong place. I will do better next time! O, how I love all of you and I so miss being in the mist of you. One last question! Is there a bible in print that has the scriptures that fit closes to the original Hebrew than those we are most accustom to. Also, please continue to pray for Ruby and I as we are yet enduring some health problems. I am about a month on this side from having hip surgery.  The doctor's says it comes from going up and down so many box cars over the years. Love and prayers! Timothy
 
   

[Kat]

Thanks Kat, we are all really and truly looking forward to this new earth with Jesus as ruler and king!
I sometimes wonder what it will be like though, will we live under the stars in tents as the ancients did? Will we go back to the times of Adam and Eve with the innocence they had before they ate the fruit? I think about this often and was just wondering if anybody else has these thoughts (however silly they may seem) 

Jingle

I think that which I put in bold is an impossibility. Once somebody has lived and sinned they are no longer innocent and cannot return to such a state of being... I believe all the multitudes of people at resurrection will be the very same person they were at death, with the same mind - understandings - knowledge - memory - skills - personality - and everything that makes up an individual's character whether good or bad. That is what God will be looking at and will judge.

1Cor 3:12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
v. 13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Now what will the living conditions be like? Well we don't know how that will be worked out, but things will be so different at that time, and one thing is for sure there will be an abundance of man/woman power to get things done. I would think house building will have a really big boom then. Also no long will there be people who will not work for a living... health issues will not be a problem as Christ can heal any and all. And neither will there be those who simply refuse to work either, as Paul said.

2Th 3:10  For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

It just seems logical to me that's God's government will make sure that everybody takes care of their responsibilities... that's could be part of the judgment on the world, that everybody has to pull their own weight and not take advantage of others. We can only imagine how Christ's government will operate, but we can know for sure that it will be in perfect righteous... something we will just have to get use to then 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[jingle52]

Thanks Kat, what a wonderful world that would be.....
Timothy, I wish you and your wife all the best and hope things work out for you both health-wise. Just recovering from pneumonia myself 
Love this forum too, will be lost without it even though I do not post often 

Jingle

[Mike Gagne]

Hello to all. I would just like to add a comment on this verse.

Rev 21:1  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

LRay  taught in his lake of fire series that revelation is a book of symbols. And he also taught what the earth is. Quote from Lray.   

The "heart of the earth" is the very DEPTH OF THE FLESH. The flesh of man is "of the EARTH, EARTHY" Paul tells us.

And that the sea is the sea of humanity.

Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


I don't think there will literally be a new earth.

Rev 21:1  Now I saw a new heaven

Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

and a new earth,

1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly

for the first heaven( the heaven of mans mind where he dwells ) and the first earth

1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

( the flesh of man ) had passed away. Also there was no more sea

The last part of the verse which I underlined I am just making my own comment. All corrections welcome.
When John stood upon the sand of the sea was he not dwelling in a different heaven then those he was just above, the sea of humanity. And he was not in the third heaven where God dwells. So when all of humanity dwells in the third Heaven where God dwells will there not be any more sea? I don't know if that fits so all comments on this are much thought over.

Righteousness, Peace and Joy to All

[Kat]

Hi Michael,

Certainly Revelation is symbolism, and no I don't believe there will be "literally a new earth" either, as in a new planet. Generally speaking when it speaks of earth it's talking about mankind's domain. Just like heaven is not speaking of the literal sky/atmosphere above the earth or outer-space, heaven is God's domain.

Psa 103:19  The LORD has established His throne in heaven, And His kingdom rules over all.

The "new earth" means it will not be the same as it was, the next age won't be like the old was, it will be different.

Matt 6:10  Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

So what does that mean?

Isa 2:2  Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD's house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it.

No of course the new earth isn't speaking of the rocks, trees, rivers and such... even there where it speaks of mountain, it's talking about something else, it's not literal. Here is a brief comment in an article.

http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html -----------------

All this stuff about symbols, and figurative language, and allegories, and parables, and metaphors, and devils and serpents, and monsters from the sea having seven heads and ten horns, and fires in a lake which is not really a lake, but is a spiritual lake and not literal fire, and heads that are not heads, but mountains, and the mountains are not mountains, but rather kings, etc., etc., etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Micah 1:2  Hear, all you peoples! Listen, O earth, and all that is in it! Let the Lord GOD be a witness against you, The Lord from His holy temple.
v. 3  For behold, the LORD is coming out of His place; He will come down And tread on the high places of the earth.
v. 4  The mountains will melt under Him, And the valleys will split Like wax before the fire, Like waters poured down a steep place.

Can you see how things will be new - different? The mountains/kings of the world will melt/dissolve/disappear, Christ will cast them down and take over. Righteousness is not the general rule in this world/age now, but it certainly will be then.

2Peter 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Hab 2:14  For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.

2Co 5:17  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Just as with the chosen few now are becoming a "new creation" in Christ, so the rest of mankind will begin the process of being made new in the next age. In Revelation we see some specifics of those that shall "become new."

Rev 21:4  And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Sounds like a really big difference from what we have in this world now.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Kat, Yes I agree,
your quote

Certainly Revelation is symbolism, and no I don't believe there will be "literally a new earth" either, as in a new planet. Generally speaking when it speaks of earth it's talking about mankind's domain. Just like heaven is not speaking of the literal sky/atmosphere above the earth or outer-space, heaven is God's domain.

my quote

When John stood upon the sand of the sea was he not dwelling in a different heaven then those he was just above, the sea of humanity. And he was not in the third heaven where God dwells. So when all of humanity dwells in the third Heaven where God dwells will there not be any more sea?

I underlined part of your quote, and in the book of revelation it seems to me its not the earth( planet ) he's talking about, its the man's tent he live's in!

Thanks Kat

R.P and J

Michael

[lareli]

What goes around comes around.

I believe God repeats history over and over. Tutankhamun looks black to me (but the topic controversial

Dennis I've been trying to figure out what you mean by this post.. I get the 'what goes around comes around' and 'God repeats history over and over.' But could you elaborate on what King Tut possibly being black has to do with those statements?

I have an idea but don't want to assume.

[Dennis Vogel]

What goes around comes around.

I believe God repeats history over and over. Tutankhamun looks black to me (but the topic controversial

Dennis I've been trying to figure out what you mean by this post.. I get the 'what goes around comes around' and 'God repeats history over and over.' But could you elaborate on what King Tut possibly being black has to do with those statements?

I have an idea but don't want to assume.

At this point in history most Africans are still slaves in many parts of the world and very poor. But at one time they ruled and had their own slaves, wealth, etc. History has a way of repeating. Only the players change.

[lareli]

Ok, that's what I thought you were saying. Very interesting.