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Was Adam considered fully man before he sinned?

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Wittenberg:
I believe, like Ray, that becoming "made in god's image" is a continuing process. But I have a hunch that there is a nugget of something about Jesus being a man and Adam being a man. Jesus never sinned and Adam never sinned, until he did. How were pre-fall Adam and Jesus the same, how were they different?

Thanks

Dennis Vogel:
We know God is both male and female. Adam was both before Eve. That's all I can think of for now.

Kat:

--- Quote from: Wittenberg on March 15, 2016, 04:23:52 PM ---I believe, like Ray, that becoming "made in god's image" is a continuing process. But I have a hunch that there is a nugget of something about Jesus being a man and Adam being a man. Jesus never sinned and Adam never sinned, until he did. How were pre-fall Adam and Jesus the same, how were they different?

Thanks
--- End quote ---

Hi Wittenberg,

1Cor 15:46  Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
v. 47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.
v. 48  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
v. 49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

First of all there was never a "fall" of Adam and Eve, they were created from their first day "earthy" and not with the Holy Spirit, so they were carnal and just as spiritual weak as the rest of humanity... does a day go by when a human being does not sin in one way or another?  I don't think so and neither did they, so they were doomed for destruction/lost/perished as all humanity is in this life, accept a very few that will be saved in this life.

Mat 7:13  "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

The Son took on this earthy body, so to experience the same life we have to and die as we must, there's how He was the same as us. But He had the Holy Spirit without measure (John 3:34)... therefore He never sinned and was not of a carnal nature as the rest of humanity, he was God. Big difference.

John 1:14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

willemv:
Hi Wittenberg
That was now really a good question and I find it difficult to relate to the last response.I think one should be careful to make statements like Adam was "doomed"from the beginning and there was no "fall".Then you say in fact God created Adam as a sinner? To me the Word of God teaches that Adam was created in the image of God (although without knowledge of good and evil). They lived in complete harmony with their Creator and we do not know how much time expired between their creation and the great deception of Satan. But surely they were completely innocent !This relationship is actually confirmed when God called Adam after the "fall" and Adam tried to hide from God because of his "nakedness"(the knowledge of evil in his own life because of their wrong choice )In Rom 5:12 we read :" wherefore as by one man sin entered(it was not there before )into this world and death by sin ;and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned."What does this say?There was innocence (first ) and then sin and death and "so death passed upon all men "--this is how we are all as guilty as Adam - born in sin --Adam's sin imputed upon all men. This is the point where men's nature changed for all generations. In the same way we are all guilty of the Crucifixion of Christ (Ray's teaching -not mine )As sinners we are of the seed of Adam (being the seminal father of all mankind )and as believers we are in Christ quickened by his Spirit -- even so the battle between the flesh and the spirit  rages on in our lifes.
Also to say that Christ came to this earth to experience the same life and die as we ,is a bit of a loose statement. He came to save the world from sin. For that the Father sent Him to be born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit so as to be flesh but without the contamination of the "fallen " flesh of the first Adam. For the rest He was equal to man except for sin. He was also to withstand temptations and trials (read Ray's teaching on Jesus's trial in the garden of Gethsemany )Adam was also created the son of God  (see the genealogy of Jesus in Luk 3:38) in other words pure in mind and innocent.When Scripture likens or compares Jesus to the man Adam it is the Adam after he came to the knowledge of good and evil (first Adam -sin ; second Adam -- redemption of sin )
Again , good question and worthwhile contemplating on ,Yours in Christ , Wim

jingle52:
Ray teaches clearly that man was created with a weak heart from the beginning,
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

otherwise Eve would not have “lusted with her eyes”  etc. Gen 6. also 1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

God created all things and Satan too for a purpose and his purpose was to deceive Eve so that God’s plan could be initiated for mankind

God knew that Eve would be deceived so didn’t intervene when the serpent did his work “He knows the end from the beginning” Isa 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Another point to consider, if Eve was not deceived and their eyes opened, then they would not have had sexual intercourse to start the human race and they would still have been the only two in the garden. But God himself told them to “be fruitful and multiply” Gen 1:28 (because He knew the end from the beginning and that they would only be able to be fruitful and multiply after they had eaten of the fruit) and God Himself placed that tree there for them to eventually eat from it, thus initiating His divine plan for humanity.

God’s plan was to select his saints and elect for them to be his sons and daughters
Lk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Kat also brings forth scriptures that prove this point exactly!

This is my understanding so far, if I’m wrong please correct me

Jingle

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