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Author Topic: Luke 23:43  (Read 14425 times)

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stello

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Luke 23:43
« on: March 22, 2016, 07:14:21 PM »

And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise

Was this guy called and chosen on the cross? Or was Jesus saying in time you will be with me in paradise?

Stello
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Job 13:15 "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him."

rick

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 10:23:38 PM »

Hi Stello.

The comma should be placed after today.

Truly I say to you today, you shall be with me in paradise.  Today Im telling you something that will come about.

God bless.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 10:38:57 PM by Rick »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 11:30:47 PM »

Here's some study Ray did on the question.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11614.0.html

Jesus tells the thief: "today you will be with me in paradise"

Amazing what a difference the proper placing of a comma will do to the meaning of a sentence.

Luke 23:43 should read as follows:  "Verily [truly], to you am I saying TODAY, [comma] with Me shall you be in paradise."

Punctuation was not inspired or used in the original Manuscripts from which our modern language Bibles have been translated. Christ DID NOT go to a place called "paradise" on the day that He was crucified, and neither did anyone else.   Here is proof:

When placing the comma where it should go, the meaning is that Christ told the thief "today" that "with Me SHALL [future] you be in paradise."

Christ was in the "heart of the earth" (a rock tomb) for three whole days and nights following His crucifixion:  "For EVEN AS Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights,  THUS WILL the Son of Mankind be in the HEART OF THE EARTH THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS" (Matt. 12:40).

Christ was to return to HEAVEN after His crucifixion. But Heaven is NEVER CALLED PARADISE. Paradise is a Persian word that means a beautiful garden (as in the Garden of Eden, not Heaven).

Just before dying, Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands am I committing MY SPIRIT." So upon death Christ's spirit returned to God, just as ours also do (Luke 23:46). Though Christ's spirit returned to God, Christ (Himself) was DEAD! Christ DIED on the cross for our sins:  He did NOT go to paradise for our sins!

Christ's BODY was put into a Tomb, "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and laid it in his own new tomb..." (Mat. 27:59-60). Christ's body did NOT go to a place called paradise. The ONLY SIGN that Christ gave the Pharisees that He was indeed the Messiah was the length of time that He would remain dead in the grave.  ""Three days AND three nights"--and even the very sign that Jesus gave of His Messiahship is denied by virtually all of Christendom. They change three days and three nights to Friday sunset until Easter [a totally pagan name and goddess] Sunday morning (barely one and a half days).

Christ's "soul" went to the realm of "hades" (the UNSEEN OR IMPERCEPTIBLE), NOT a "paradise."

AFTER Jesus was crucified, dead, and buried, and AFTER three days and three nights, and AFTER He was resurrected, He said to Meriam, "Do NOT TOUCH ME, for NOT AS YET HAVE I ASCENDED TO MY FATHER" (John 20:17). So even AFTER His resurrection, He was NOT IN A PLACE CALLED PARADISE WITH THE THIEF, but rather conversing with Meriam and the Disciples for forty days.






----------------------------------------------------------------------


It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context.  Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He?  No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise."  But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant.  Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse:  "Verily I say unto thee this day:  With me shalt thou be in Paradise."  But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution?  God tells us how to solve this verse and every other verse of Scripture:  "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
 
But is this what theology does?  No, theologians say this this verse EXPLAINS ITSELF --"That VERY DAY the thief went with Christ TO HEAVEN."  Oh really?  That is not what the REST of the Bible teaches.
 
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that?  Is there any Scriptural justification for that?  NO, no there isn't.  In what way do the Scriptures liken paradise to heaven?  Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures.  "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
 
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9).  And what else is that Garden of Eden called?  Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
 
[1]  The "Garden of Eden."  Was that garden, "heaven?"  What did we find in that garden:  (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
 
[2]  The "Garden of Gethsemane."  Was that garden "heaven?"  What did we find in that garden?  (1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden,  (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
 
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you?  I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43.  Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God.  This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does.  That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
 
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
 
God be with you,
Ray


--------------------------------------------------------------

The last response is the most powerful, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 10:31:17 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

stello

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 12:14:04 PM »


Thanks for the responses, i thought i heard Ray mention that comma placement before but i wasn't 100% sure.

stello
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Job 13:15 "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him."

lareli

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 12:47:37 PM »

Is there any other instance where Jesus talked like that? Meaning, is there another verse where Jesus made a statement that began with 'I tell you today..' Where a comma should be placed after 'today'?

I know He often began a statement with 'truly truly I say to you...' But where else did He ever say 'I tell you today(comma)....'

Why say 'today' at all? It's not like the thief on the cross didn't know that Jesus was speaking to him 'today' as opposed to yesterday or tomorrow.

'I say to you yesterday, ' or 'I say to you tomorrow,' why say 'today' unless it is necessary in understanding the truth He was speaking?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 01:02:36 PM »

Remember, you are dealing with a translation. Here are some KJV with the comma after to day. First quote by Jesus.

Luk 13:33  Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

It's like saying "I'm telling you now" - Same as saying "I'm telling you today"

« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 01:05:19 PM by Dennis Vogel »
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willemv

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 05:15:19 PM »

Shifting the comma seems to be a bit of a lame solution because then there is no real sense in using the word,it becomes sort of meaningless that is of course if the word was meant to mean "to-day " as we understand it. The JW's have shifted the comma in their bible as you probably know. In 2 Cor 12 :2-4 we read the words "the third heaven" and "paradise" having the same meaning. Could it be that as Christ and the thief were both dying that day, that Christ meant the resurrection , as while the thief was dead he would have no recollection of the period of time he was dead ?
Wim
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 05:41:45 PM »

Shifting the comma seems to be a bit of a lame solution because then there is no real sense in using the word,it becomes sort of meaningless that is of course if the word was meant to mean "to-day " as we understand it. The JW's have shifted the comma in their bible as you probably know. In 2 Cor 12 :2-4 we read the words "the third heaven" and "paradise" having the same meaning. Could it be that as Christ and the thief were both dying that day, that Christ meant the resurrection , as while the thief was dead he would have no recollection of the period of time he was dead ?
Wim

The thieves will eventually be in paradise like all humans but they are not the elect.

There is no sense of time while you are dead. There is nothing.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 05:54:07 PM by Dennis Vogel »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 06:41:01 PM »

The main point is that this 'verse' is not it's own interpretation either.  Other 'rules' apply as well, as the thief was NOT a hand-picked disciple.  There are scores of 'verses' which clearly tell us what the state of the dead is like.  Scores of 'verses' which talk about the 'need' for resurrection, and it being our only hope.  Jesus did not contradict Himself on the cross.
 
The thief asked to be remembered when Jesus came into His kingdom.  First, how did the thief know Jesus HAD a Kingdom?  Second, what did he know about this Kingdom.  Third, what did he THINK he knew about this Kingdom.  There's something about the request itself that causes me to think 'deeper' than the preachers I've heard.  Why should I think that the thief had the same theological understanding as most Christian theologians who take this to mean 'heaven'? 

Jesus is telling Him something true, just as He told His disciples on the many, many, many occasions they asked about His Kingdom and he answered and/or taught with parables.

Jesus' answer doesn't address the Thief's request in the way the thief may have been hoping or expecting--no matter where you put the comma.  If somebody were to ask ME to remember her when I saw the moon, it would be perfectly rational to answer her with a statement that says I will remember her today, and not wait until I saw the moon.  (comma option 1).  Then remember her (again) when I saw the moon, whether I told her I would or not.  (comma option 1 with 'scriptural witnesses').  It would also be perfectly rational to answer her, that right now I am telling her I will remember her when I see the moon (comma option 2).             
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 01:10:45 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Porter

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 08:01:23 PM »

Could also be one of those things intended to trip up "the many" a lot like Jesus' parables do. They don't need a second witness.
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Mike Gagne

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 08:06:52 PM »

Hi everyone , we also know that all must go through judgement!

Jeremiah 49:12   (KJV)

12  For thus saith the LORD; Behold, they whose judgment was not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken;

Is that the thief on the cross who hasn't drank of the cup?

Isa 26:9 for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin ( if it begins then its first ) at the house of God:
   
Was the thief of the house of God and did he really go through judgement, I think not.

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is

1 Peter 1:7   (KJV)

7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Something to ask your self, did the thief go through judgement by fire?

Like Dave said, the verse is not of its own interpretation, thanks Dave that was a great post. But I think if we look at what it takes to enter the Kingdom of God, the thief still has to pass through the fire!

Zechariah 13:9   (KJV)

9  And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried:

1 Peter 4:12   (KJV)

12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

 Anyhow thats how I see it. Reading the lake of fire series makes it clear what it will take to become a son of God, FIRE for our GOD is a CONSUMING FIRE...

R.P and J

Michael
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Kat

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 11:29:28 PM »


One more point, these men crucified at the same time as Christ were "criminals" (verse 32). There was never a mention by Christ or Luke the author of the book or any other that the man that spoke to Christ was a brethren/believer.

Of much more significance is the man on the cross died BEFORE Christ was resurrected, so before the Spirit of Christ had come into people. Therefore besides not being a brethren, he would not have been eligible for the first resurrection, no more than John the Baptist was. Therefore the man asked to be remembered by Christ could not have been chosen. But Christ gave him a little glimpse of what the next age that the man would get to be a part of would be, a paradise. Just a point I thought worth mentioning.

Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Mike Gagne

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2016, 01:45:07 AM »

Hi Kat  Excellent point thank you.

John 16:7-16   (ESV)

7  Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
13  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
14  He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Luk 24:49  And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

John 14:26   (ESV)

26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

I guess if the thief was dead in the grave, none of the scriptures above would apply to him.   

Michael
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Nelson Boils

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2016, 04:23:49 AM »

TS1998 And יהושע said to him, “Truly, I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise"

Deu 4:40 “And you shall guard His laws and His commands which I command you TODAY, so that it is well with you and with your children after you..,"

Deu 6:6 "And these words that I am commanding you TODAY,shall be on your heart"

Deu 7:11 “And you shall guard the command, and the laws, and the right-rulings which I command you TODAY, to do them."

Deu 31:27 "for I myself know your rebellion and your stiff neck. See, while I am still alive with you TODAY, you have been rebellious against יהוה, then how much more after my death? "

Deu 32:46 he said to them, “Set your heart on all the words with which I warn you TODAY, so that you command your children to guard to do all the Words..."

Mar 14:30 And יהושע said to him, “Truly, I say to you that TODAY, this night, before the cock shall crow twice, you shall deny Me three times.”

Act 26:29 And Sha’ul said, “Much or little, I pray to Elohim that not only you, but also all who hear me TODAY, might become such as I also am.."

Heb 3:15 while it is said, “TODAY, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
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willemv

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2016, 05:28:04 AM »

Dear all
 I as a little naughty and I knew it when I posted my first comment , but I really expected more !

 When I referred to the resurrection I never had the first resurrection in mind , the thief was not a saint or elect. That I expected all of you to know. In our diligence to find second witnesses in the Bible and to quote a whole series from Deuteronomy ... those really have no bearing on the circumstances on the cross . This was a unique occurrence and there are other in the Bible where you will find it very difficult to find a second witness unless you "read " it in to fit your argument.

Kind regards,love and blessings , Wim
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2016, 06:37:36 AM »

Willem, it's true that there are numerous events in the bible which have no "Second Witness".  There was only one thief on the cross who said this, and only one reply from Jesus.  It's only recorded in Luke's gospel.  But that's not what a 'second witness' IS. 

Shechiyn posted that list of scripture to answer Largeli's question:  "Is there any other instance where Jesus talked like that? Meaning, is there another verse where Jesus made a statement that began with 'I tell you today..' Where a comma should be placed after 'today'?" Clearly, there is...assuming you believe as I do that Jehovah OT is Jesus NT. 

I wanted to point out it is a contradiction with other scripture to say that Jesus told the thief that this very day he would be with Him in paradise...especially if that means the 'common' meaning of 'heaven'.  It's theologians who make the contradictions based on ONE VERSE and their traditions.  Of course, theologians are not all professional.

I'll go a step or two further, though it may be a small matter.  I'm not 100% sure that the thief was the complete 'repentant sinner' that I learned about in Sunday School.  Nor am I 100% sure that the paradise Jesus mentioned is a "land of sunshine and raining M&M's".  Ray seems to be hinting at this in his reply to the emails which I quoted above.  It matters nothing where you put the comma, in this instance.  Jesus spoke to and for us all who are asking/hoping to be remembered.

It's difficult to study scripture without ANY preconceptions, but I do my best to read it with as few as possible.  I'm a believer, but I question everything I hear to see if it 'be so'.  So far, any 'new truth' I've uncovered or has been uncovered for me has been far better than any 'old truth' it has replaced.

I'll only add this.  Nobody "shifted the comma"...not even the KJV translators.  Greek had no such punctuation.  Translators "placed it", and other translators "place it" elsewhere. 

         
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 07:05:31 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2016, 10:25:28 AM »

Dear all
 I as a little naughty and I knew it when I posted my first comment , but I really expected more !

 When I referred to the resurrection I never had the first resurrection in mind , the thief was not a saint or elect. That I expected all of you to know. In our diligence to find second witnesses in the Bible and to quote a whole series from Deuteronomy ... those really have no bearing on the circumstances on the cross . This was a unique occurrence and there are other in the Bible where you will find it very difficult to find a second witness unless you "read " it in to fit your argument.

Kind regards,love and blessings , Wim

That is an odd comment to make... "I really expected more !" chastising the rest when you did not bring anything significant to the discussion. People come to these discussions and make comments to try an help one another, a second witness is always searched for and very few times (if ever) is there not more on any particular point, sometimes it is just not realized. I feel it's a great help to see what other Scripture people bring to a discussion.

But we are all un-learning so many of the common beliefs of the church that have tripped us up so much and kept us from the truth. That's the great benefit of these threads, we are able to discuss all the aspects of these Scriptures that have been misunderstood. I appreciated every contribution made here.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 10:37:42 AM by Kat »
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stello

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2016, 09:16:05 PM »


 Therefore besides not being a brethren, he would not have been eligible for the first resurrection, no more than John the Baptist was.


Do you mean John was not chosen to be part of the first resurrection? What about Abraham? Doesn't the scripture talk about Abraham believing God and it was imparted to him as righteousness? Just need a little help understanding what makes one eligible to be in the first resurrection. Thanks!

stello
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Job 13:15 "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him."

Mike Gagne

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2016, 10:20:05 PM »

 Hi Stello,

Heb 11:4  By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5  By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8  By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9  By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10  For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11  Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12  Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


Heb 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Luke 10:23-24   (KJV)

23  And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24  For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.



Jesus hadn't been to the cross yet

Hebrews 7:19   (KJV)

19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 7:22   (KJV)

22  By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Hebrews 8:6   (KJV)

6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises


Michael
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 10:27:20 PM by Michael G »
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Kat

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2016, 12:27:11 AM »


Therefore besides not being a brethren, he would not have been eligible for the first resurrection, no more than John the Baptist was.

Do you mean John was not chosen to be part of the first resurrection? What about Abraham? Doesn't the scripture talk about Abraham believing God and it was imparted to him as righteousness? Just need a little help understanding what makes one eligible to be in the first resurrection. Thanks!

stello

Hi Stello,

Yes none of the patriarch, prophets or even John the Baptist will be in the first resurrection, because as Michael showed the Scripture they all died before Christ was sacrificed and did not receive the promise.

Mat 11:11  Truly I say to you, Among those who have been born of women there has not risen a greater one than John the Baptist. But the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.

Nobody will/can be in the first Resurrection accept "through" Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:11  This is the Stone which you builders have counted worthless, and He has become the Head of the Corner.
v. 12  And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

2Cor 5:18  And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

The God of the OT that we know as the Savior of the world was not yet born into the world for those in the old covenant time. It was only by the life and death of Christ as the perfect sacrifice that any will be saved. Jesus is the only way, He is the Good Shepherd and the Door to the few now and the rest later.

John 10:9  I am the Door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Jon 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

John 10:14  I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
v. 15  As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

We must know Christ, just as He knows us and that is only possible if you have heard the gospel message of His life and death and resurrection as the Savior of the world. Only now since Christ came and the new covenant replaced the old are a few being brought/drawn to Christ to receive His spirit.

John 14:6  Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 6:44  No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:17  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah! He has blessed us in the Messiah with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realm, 4 just as He chose us in the Messiah before the creation of the universe to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5 He predestined us for adoption to Himself through Jesus the Messiah, according to the pleasure of His will, 6 so that we would praise His glorious grace that He gave us in the Beloved One. 7 In union with Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our offenses, according to the riches of God's grace 8 that He lavished on us, along with all wisdom and understanding, 9 when He made known to us the secret of His will. This was according to His plan that He set forth in the Messiah 10 to usher in the fullness of the times and to bring together in the Messiah all things in heaven and on earth. 11 In the Messiah we were also chosen when we were predestined according to the purpose of the one who does everything that He wills to do, 12 so that we who had already fixed our hope on the Messiah might live for His praise and glory. 13 You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until God redeems His own possession for His praise and glory. (ISV)

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 10:35:02 AM by Kat »
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