bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Blah  (Read 11197 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lostANDfound

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Blah
« on: March 26, 2016, 10:36:45 PM »

Just got cornered for a few hours by a pastor at a big dinner. I'm feeling a little wrung out. One of his main arguments was that the church fathers believed such and such so that's why I should. Now I'm off to go to his parents house where we're staying for another week as we're out of province right now. (Sigh)
Logged
Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

Porter

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 345
Re: Blah
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 11:28:52 PM »

Interesting, I had a couple baptist come to my house today preaching the standard "hell fire and damnation" bit. They said something that I've never heard in defense of the KJV being the only perfect translation, and that was the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts are perverted.

Anyway I gave them a couple of the business cards Ray had made out and wished them the best. They seemed in a hurry to leave lol.
Logged
Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Blah
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 12:21:23 AM »

You guys seem to be living right.   ;D
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lostANDfound

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: Blah
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 12:37:42 AM »

Ha!  That's pretty encouraging Dave, thanks!
Logged
Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

Wittenberg

  • Guest
Re: Blah
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2016, 02:44:24 AM »

I would love to get to preach like that to unbelievers. Kinda jealous, sorta
Logged

octoberose

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 625
Re: Blah
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2016, 03:48:56 AM »

Lost and Found, this made me laugh.  :D  Just tell em the pharisees were the leaders of their day and look at how that worked out! I love conversations like that.
Logged

Nelson Boils

  • Guest
Re: Blah
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 03:59:44 AM »

Good way to respond,porter:you giving them Ray's business cards.

I also have an acquaintance who is a christian and I printed "the rich man and Lazarus" in book format and gave it to him instead of trying to argue and debate.
Logged

Porter

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 345
Re: Blah
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2016, 04:14:35 AM »

Good way to respond,porter:you giving them Ray's business cards.

I also have an acquaintance who is a christian and I printed "the rich man and Lazarus" in book format and gave it to him instead of trying to argue and debate.

Yep exactly totally agree. I dont know anyone who can better explain the truths we believe besides Ray. So might as well point them to the website.

Only thing I told them was I didnt agree and even provided a couple witnesses for THEIR verses in an vain effort to show them God will save all.

lostANDfound, 99.999999% of the time they don't wanna hear the truth as we know it. So I'm (stubbornly) coming to realize it's pretty pointless to try an convince them. So now I simply give a couple verses and point them to bible-truths.com.  So much easier, less frustrating and avoids arguing and debating.
Logged
Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

lostANDfound

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: Blah
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2016, 10:07:57 AM »

I didn't want any part in that conversation and was well aware that we would both walk away believing as we did before but he wanted to play his favourite sport of evangelizing us heretics, and he had the perfect arena with many of his fans wandering into the room to the watch the great event. I thought it was right to be ready with an answer so I answered, when he let me get a word in.  My husband was so good, he sat by me, hoping to lend me some strength and show solidarity while keeping out of the conversation since we speak for ourselves regarding our faith, and our journeys and beliefs aren't identical.  I did find the irony quite thick, with this pastor hiding eggs around the house moments before he tried to evangelize me.  :-\
Logged
Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

Dennis Vogel

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3328
Re: Blah
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2016, 10:21:26 AM »

Interesting, I had a couple baptist come to my house today preaching the standard "hell fire and damnation" bit. They said something that I've never heard in defense of the KJV being the only perfect translation, and that was the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts are perverted.

Anyway I gave them a couple of the business cards Ray had made out and wished them the best. They seemed in a hurry to leave lol.

You cannot argue with ignorance. This really applies here:

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Logged

Extol

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 660
Re: Blah
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 11:50:28 AM »

Just got cornered for a few hours by a pastor at a big dinner. I'm feeling a little wrung out. One of his main arguments was that the church fathers believed such and such so that's why I should. Now I'm off to go to his parents house where we're staying for another week as we're out of province right now. (Sigh)

There was a guy with us a short time ago (no longer here) who asked about early church fathers believing in universalism. I showed him three church fathers who did believe and teach it:

John: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

Peter: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).

Paul: For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe (1 Tim. 4:10).


Of course I did not hear back, because it was not what he wanted to hear. It's interesting that people will disregard the writings of John, Peter, and Paul, but as soon as Polycarp or Irenaeus or Cyril talk about eternal punishment, they'll say "Look! Can't you see it?! The early church fathers believed in hell!"

It reminds me of what Ray said numerous times: "There is no verse that says God will not save all. If there were, it would be the FIRST VERSE they would use to defend their hell doctrine." Since they don't have a verse like that, they'll sometimes go to the backup plan, which is "The Church Fathers...."
Logged

Joel

  • Moderator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 844
Re: Blah
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 12:40:08 PM »

I agree Extol, The Lord sent Paul to many places preaching the Gospel, And in all the letters he wrote to the various Churches, how many times does he mention hell in all of those writings?

Joel
Logged

Mike Gagne

  • Guest
Re: Blah
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 01:02:01 PM »

 Hi lostANDfound,



Dennis your right

Quote
you cannot argue with ignorance. This really applies here:

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you

I tried arguing with them , it just doesn't work! I have two christians who work for me and to them I am the false prophet. Nope I can't open there eyes, it just not going to happen. I just do not go there with them, when they try and talk to me about what they believe I just straight out change the subject and now they seem to leave it alone. Every once and awhile they say you know you need to get back into a church and I just tell them no thanks.

Michael

« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 01:12:24 PM by Michael G »
Logged

Porter

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 345
Re: Blah
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 12:30:42 AM »

lostANDfound,

I have a much better appreciation today toward your original post. The baptists came back today, but this time with the pastor! Like you I couldn't help but try give an answer, as he was asking a lot of questions. Lets just say it ended on somewhat of a sour note when as the pastor was leaving he said I should "get a KJV bible and read it". So now I too feel a bit wrung out. Blah indeed!
Logged
Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Blah
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 01:37:25 AM »

You've never read a KJV bible?   ;D

I'm convinced beyond unconvincing that there have been PLENTY of believers who had nothing but the KJV.

1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11  These things command and teach.

Tell him when he is obedient to this scripture, you'll happily have coffee with him to talk about how Jesus does it.   


Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Mike Gagne

  • Guest
Re: Blah
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 01:51:43 AM »

Hi Dave, Thats great, I will keep that in mind for my self. :)


You've never read a KJV bible?   ;D

I'm convinced beyond unconvincing that there have been PLENTY of believers who had nothing but the KJV.

1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11  These things command and teach.

Tell him when he is obedient to this scripture, you'll happily have coffee with him to talk about how Jesus does it.   



Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Blah
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 03:22:43 PM »


2Tim 3:2  For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
v. 3  unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
v. 4  traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
v. 5  having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

The ministers of the church interprets the Bible with the carnal mind, and they cannot come to the truth of it, their "form of godiness" is religion, certainly not truth. They teach and believe the only thing they can know/understand... and what is so telling is that when they are shown the truth, they deny it!
Titus 1:15  To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
v. 16  They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

I have very little patience with anybody trying to 'teach' me heresy... they want you to hear them out, but would have very little time for your knowledge, it's not like you can get through to them anyway. And if I just listen without disagreeing, is that not like letting them think you agree with them? Nobody from the church has to explain anything they believe to me, after all I was there most of my life... I know what they believe, but they just can't comprehend what I do. I am not intimidated by there ability to quote many verses either, so I go with "from such people turn away!"

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged

lostANDfound

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
Re: Blah
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2016, 06:22:24 PM »

I'm going to keep all this in mind over the next week as I am at a huge family gathering for my grandmas 90th birthday and the pastor is actually my cousin and many other relatives here are missionaries. So I'm likely to get an opportunity to practice it. 😒
Logged
Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

Porter

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 345
Re: Blah
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2016, 11:12:53 PM »

Really good sound advice everyone, and especially Kat. I really needed to hear that. I too will remember it if there ever is a next time. I can be so stubborn sometimes.
Logged
Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Porter

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 345
Re: Blah
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 04:32:57 AM »

Sorry for the double post, but I just had to share this. I was reading the paper 'Does All mean All?' again today and all throughout my reading I had this thought stuck in my head that Scripture is for the Elect ONLY. Then I came across this quote at the end of the paper I never noticed before lol.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html

BOTTOM LINE: It is not necessary; we are not obligated; it is not incumbent upon us; we do no NEED to prove our faith to the satisfaction of those who DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD! If we know it in our hearts and minds we are not obligated to prove it to these people that despise the word of God, we’re not obligated. But I teach this, of course for our benefit.

------------------------------

Before this thread started I had asked God to show me if it was important to share the good news we have learned here at bible truths to those without. Bit by bit and little by little over the past few years and more so over the last few weeks, either through Scripture, or through posts made by forum members and through Ray's papers, God was telling me no.

The truths we know and love as written in the Scriptures and as expounded by Ray are not for everyone. Scripture is not for everyone. The Scriptural references and witnesses that were posted on this thread show that. And it is because like Ray said, "they cant handle the truth". 

Any teaching or preaching that needs to be done, is for the benefit and for the perfecting of the Saints.

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Col 3:14  And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15  And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Everything written in Scriptures is all for us. Everything Ray wrote according to what God showed him is for us. I know this is probably no big deal to some of you, but it is a revelation to me. Just want to say I think (I hope) I finally understand.   
Logged
Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.056 seconds with 23 queries.