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Extol:

--- Quote from: lostANDfound on March 26, 2016, 10:36:45 PM ---Just got cornered for a few hours by a pastor at a big dinner. I'm feeling a little wrung out. One of his main arguments was that the church fathers believed such and such so that's why I should. Now I'm off to go to his parents house where we're staying for another week as we're out of province right now. (Sigh)

--- End quote ---

There was a guy with us a short time ago (no longer here) who asked about early church fathers believing in universalism. I showed him three church fathers who did believe and teach it:

John: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

Peter: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).

Paul: For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe (1 Tim. 4:10).

Of course I did not hear back, because it was not what he wanted to hear. It's interesting that people will disregard the writings of John, Peter, and Paul, but as soon as Polycarp or Irenaeus or Cyril talk about eternal punishment, they'll say "Look! Can't you see it?! The early church fathers believed in hell!"

It reminds me of what Ray said numerous times: "There is no verse that says God will not save all. If there were, it would be the FIRST VERSE they would use to defend their hell doctrine." Since they don't have a verse like that, they'll sometimes go to the backup plan, which is "The Church Fathers...."

Joel:
I agree Extol, The Lord sent Paul to many places preaching the Gospel, And in all the letters he wrote to the various Churches, how many times does he mention hell in all of those writings?

Joel

Mike Gagne:
 Hi lostANDfound,



Dennis your right


--- Quote ---you cannot argue with ignorance. This really applies here:

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you
--- End quote ---

I tried arguing with them , it just doesn't work! I have two christians who work for me and to them I am the false prophet. Nope I can't open there eyes, it just not going to happen. I just do not go there with them, when they try and talk to me about what they believe I just straight out change the subject and now they seem to leave it alone. Every once and awhile they say you know you need to get back into a church and I just tell them no thanks.

Michael

Porter:
lostANDfound,

I have a much better appreciation today toward your original post. The baptists came back today, but this time with the pastor! Like you I couldn't help but try give an answer, as he was asking a lot of questions. Lets just say it ended on somewhat of a sour note when as the pastor was leaving he said I should "get a KJV bible and read it". So now I too feel a bit wrung out. Blah indeed!

Dave in Tenn:
You've never read a KJV bible?   ;D

I'm convinced beyond unconvincing that there have been PLENTY of believers who had nothing but the KJV.

1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11  These things command and teach.

Tell him when he is obedient to this scripture, you'll happily have coffee with him to talk about how Jesus does it.   

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