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It's not really me !

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Dave in Tenn:
No, Rick.  My "argument" is with you.  I think I understand pretty well what Paul is saying.

rick:
Hi Dave,

So, we agree to disagree,  but arguments I don't get involved with they seldom persuade one against their belief.

God bless you Dave.

Dave in Tenn:
I'm not agreeing to anything.  If you want to start a thread to 'teach' your point, you should expect to be challenged.

Paul did NOT do the "opposite" of what he wanted to do.  He didn't say he did.  You said he did.

Further, he didn't say "he didn't do the sin".  He said he didn't do 'it'.  You said it was sin he didn't do.  What is the 'it' that he "would not" but did?  What is the 'it' that he "would" but did not?

To follow your logic, Paul was fornicating at pagan temples--because he did the opposite of what he wanted to do.  He continued to stand by the stoning of believers--because he did the opposite of what he wanted to do.  He wanted to not be a burden on the churches, but dangit, he just couldn't help himself and extorted them all.  But he didn't do those things.  Sin did. 

Nonsense.  Theological gobbledegook.       

Kat:
Rick, you need to look at the whole passage to understand where Paul is coming from with that statement.

Rom 7:5  For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Paul is speaking about everybody are "in the flesh," carnality, beast, under the law, the old covenant... we all start out that way.

Rom 7:6  But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

There he shows the difference and is speaking to believers about the change that the Holy Spirit brings into their lives, "that we should no longer be slaves of sin" (Rom 6:6), no longer under the law. And he continues explaining the carnal nature.

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
v. 15  For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
v. 16  If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.

And that brings us to the verse being discussed.

Rom 7:17  But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
v. 19  For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
v. 20  Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
v. 21  What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Paul is still speaking about the carnal nature there as indicated by his question in verse 21. And then he goes on to explain how that all changes in the life a of believer with the Holy spirit.

Rom 6:22  But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
v. 23  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All (past, present, future) of our sins are forgiven and cover by Christ's sacrifice, "there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ" (Rom 8:1). It's not that we can stop sinning while still in the flesh, the only way one is "free from sin" is Jesus' blood covers them.

Eph 1:7  In Him we have redemption (Strong's - ransom in full, deliverance) through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,

Rom 4:7  "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
v. 8  blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Dennis Vogel:
There is no free ride. You need to make an effort else you're out.

Luk 6:46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 6:47  Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luk 6:48  He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luk 6:49  But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

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