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God does not.
rick:
Hi Porter,
A couple of things I would like to say, I know of no scripture in the entirety of the bible where God gave anyone permission to sin and God created us spiritually weak.
If anyone's sins bother them do they stop sinning ? If one's sins do not bother them do they stop sinning ?
For the wages of sin is death, now this is just my opinion but does God not have the right to put to death anyone who commits a sin on the spot ?
So why does God not do so ? Could it be God is using our sins to bring about His plan ?
So what should we say to these things ? Let us sin more so God will teach us more
The only problem I find is that I cannot find one scripture where God gives anyone permission to sin.
God bless.
Kat:
--- Quote from: Porter on April 17, 2016, 08:47:22 AM ---
Serious question, is it so wrong to "fear" the Lord? It's not my point to scare anyone (as if I could), but maybe I just don't get what it means to fear God in a healthy manner if such a thing is even possible. Is it only a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God later? Or now also? I admit that I sometimes fear what God will do to me if I dont obey. Just dont know if that is right. It's certainly not the only motivator that helps me do the right thing though.
--- End quote ---
Hi Porter, here are a couple of Scripture.
Rev 19:5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, "Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear G5399 Him, both small and great!"
G5399
φοβέω
phobeō
fob-eh'-o
From G5401; to frighten, that is, (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of, that is, revere: - be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear H3372 God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all.
H3372
ירא
yârê'
yaw-ray'
A primitive root; to fear; morally to revere; causatively to frighten: - affright, be (make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).
What Rick said "the main theme that Ray was showing anyone who would listen, ( is ) God is pure love at least that is what I've gotten from Rays papers." This is certainly true... but it is God who has made us in this carnal condition and so spiritually weak that as long as we are in the flesh we will sin, and that is the catch! Because God loves us so much, for the few that He is working with now, He is not going to leave us in this deplorable state of being... that was never His intention. We are being taught (yes through our sins) and corrected as we are being reconciled to God. It is a very good thing, so we should rejoice.
Col 1:24 Now I am rejoicing while suffering for you as I complete in my flesh whatever remains of the Messiah's sufferings on behalf of His body, which is the church.
But it is not a fun thing to be in the fire of God's correction, even though we know He is being merciful with us now.
Heb 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful and worship God in reverence and fear in a way that pleases Him.
v. 29 For "our God is an all-consuming fire."
What I am realizing is that it is not only outright sin that is being corrected in us either, we all have developed character flaws (personality defects) over the course of our lives and these too must be corrected. These flaws lie deep inside us and for God to bring us into His image, we have to under go some gut-wrenching (mental or emotional anguish) realizations and changes. When we realize that God must take us through these sometimes severely difficult situations to show us these faults within ourselves and correct them, that is where the reverence/fear comes in.
Heb 4:12 The word of God is alive and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. It cuts all the way through, to where soul and spirit meet, to where joints and marrow come together. It judges the desires and thoughts of the heart.
v. 13 There is nothing that can be hid from God; everything in all creation is exposed and lies open before His eyes. And it is to Him that we must all give an account of ourselves. (GNB)
That phrase "where soul and spirit meet," I'm wondering if that means our deepest most hidden secrets/faults of our heart, maybe even things we are actually denying about ourselves? As it goes on to say "nothing can be hid from God." Here is a list of 'character flaws' I found that will help show what I'm talking about.
Arrogance - act or habit of making undue claims in an overbearing manner.
Dishonesty - a habitual liar or simply tell a white lie now and again.
Short Temper - to lose control and react.
Conceit - important for you to point out your "rightness" all the time.
Perfectionism - ego is over-developed, not accepting what is less than perfect from your perspective.
Playing the Victim - not taking responsibility for the things that go wrong and pointing your finger at others.
Self-centered - focusing primarily on self and generally not being a good listener either.
Stubborn - inflexiblity, the tendency to resist any form of change.
Vanity - undue pride in oneself or one's appearance.
Humorless - not able to appreciate or express humor.
These are just a few, but I had never thought of some of these things as 'bad,' more like just who I am, my personality. But I now can see these type things are part of what needs to be corrected in us as well. I mean reflecting on some really difficult (fiery) situation that I have gone through, I realized that was needed to show me something about myself that I needed to change... honestly it came as somewhat of a surprise. But even in the face of knowing that these hard things will come and need to come, I can still praise God who is preparing (no matter how painful) godliness into carnal humans who are so undeserving and unworthy.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
rick:
Hi Porter,
Have you notice when in Christendom they hold up a bible in one hand and tell us God loves us but on the other hand they teach us about eternal damnation , they tell us our sins separate US from the love of God and because of our sins we will be eternally condemned with no hope of ever coming out of that condition.
They contradict themselves because God said while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Sin was always a big issue for me when I was apart of Christendom because I knew and believed my sins would condemn me to hell.
What an awesome way for human beings to live would you not agree ? Our lives are difficult , filled with pain and sorrows and now what a great joy it is to know that after all this we get to burn forever after we die.
I remember back in those days when I would ask anyone in church how do we not sin , all I was told back then is don't sin, yeah but how do I not sin ? None of them could answer my question anymore than anyone here can.
The things that change for me through Rays paper's is not that I ever stopped sinning but I understand to some degree why I sin. NOW I've gone from no eternal damnation to not coming up in the first resurrection because of my sinfulness.
You see Porter it doesn't matter where one goes in this life , there will always be someone who will tell you that somehow not sinning is our choice they will also tell you that it's up to you to choose God but to me folks who do these things are enemy's of the cross.
Don't they know Christ not only paid for the sins of the world but Christ is going to save the whole world too ? If we had power not to sin would we not be in direct opposition to the intentions of God ?
Yet God has given absolutely no one permission to sin yet we all sin , sin plays a very important role in God raising us up to His image but sin by its very nature is wrong.
So it's up to God to show those whom He has called the role sin plays in the life of a believer while all a long learning to despise sin while learning to love God and.excepting those things God puts in our life.
Sin is still a big issue in my life but in a different way , should one be comfortable with their sin or ok with their sin ? That's between their creator and them because we all stand or fall to our master which is God.
God bless.
Porter:
Thanks for taking the time to reply Kat and Rick. It's a relief to know others are going through the same things here at BT and around the world.
Thanks Kat for confirming something I was not too sure about concerning "fearing the Lord". Gotta admit, the point about character flaws as you listed them burned a bit as I could see them in me also. It's good to see the faith and hope you have that God will indeed correct those.
Thanks Rick for explaining that a bit more. I've thought quite a bit along the same lines at one time or another. Especially rejoicing over the fact God would never burn me in literal fire for eternity for a lifetime of sins. It was quite a relief to learn and believe that. I was very satisfied with that knowledge for a very long time. All the while I continued in my sinful ways and getting worse it seemed. Eventually I began to think it wasn't enough FOR ME to simply know it, but I came to realize I need to seriously change my evil ways because God showed me He loves me by dying for me and because of my sins. Thank God He reveals these things to us in His time. So now here Iam "working out my own salvation with fear and trembling". I always hope and pray I dont be that dog who returns to his vomit after being shown the truth. At the very least even if I'm not to be one of His Elect, that He will at least teach me to be a better person in this lifetime.
But yes truly all is of God and we cant do a thing without Him. I'm still trying to understand my role in all of this. Like Ray says, we can volunteer now, or God will volunteer us later. The beast within me sure hates not having control. :)
Colin:
Dear forum members
I have been following the thread since it began; may I make a suggestion to read Kat’s transcript (listen to the audios) of the Nashville 2007 Conference, where several sub-topics contained in this thread were covered by Ray
2007 Nashville Conference: -post 1 at the top is (audio 6) 'THE UNIVERSE!' http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_6.mp3
-post 2 (audio 7A) 'WHO IS THE FATHER?' http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7A.mp3
Some might not be aware of points made clear by Ray in this conference, many years ago, and will find them illuminating and helpful in refreshing what had “faded” for me. Colin
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