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Author Topic: Free will of Angels  (Read 1328 times)

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geoi

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Free will of Angels
« on: April 27, 2016, 02:36:31 PM »

I had always thought that angels did not have free will but were simply mechanisms of the will of God.  But there are several passages which seem to suggest otherwise.  The most often quoted is Jude 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

How do you respond to this if you believe that Angels do not have free will?
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Extol

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Re: Free will of Angels
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 08:01:52 PM »

I had always thought that angels did not have free will but were simply mechanisms of the will of God.  But there are several passages which seem to suggest otherwise.  The most often quoted is Jude 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

How do you respond to this if you believe that Angels do not have free will?

If you have always thought that angels did not have free will, why are you allowing this verse, which says nothing about the will of angels, to persuade you otherwise? How does "the angels...left their own habitation" suggest they have free will? If I say "I kept not my abscessed tooth, but left my habitation to go to the dentist," does that mean I have free will? Did I freely choose to have the abscessed tooth? Did nothing cause me to go to the dentist?

Are you uncomfortable with God being sovereign over all His creation? From your words here and in your other post, it seems like you believe in God's sovereignty, but are looking in the Bible for ways to get around it. Why not simply believe the Scriptures, instead of what they "seem to suggest"? I can testify, it's a lot more comforting believing the truth that God is sovereign than believing the alternative.
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Kat

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Re: Free will of Angels
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 11:59:20 PM »

I had always thought that angels did not have free will but were simply mechanisms of the will of God.  But there are several passages which seem to suggest otherwise.  The most often quoted is Jude 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

How do you respond to this if you believe that Angels do not have free will?

In the article 'Hell is a Christian Hoax' where Ray critiqued the book "23 Minutes in Hell" By Bill Wiese, there was a lot said about the Satan and his 'angels.' Ray explains in much details who these 'angels' are, mentioned in the Scripture and that will also show you there is no free will there whatsoever. Here are excerpts that show some of this.

http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html -----------

While it is true that the statement: "Depart from Me, ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41), it nowhere states that it was NOT ALSO made for man. This verse has absolutely no reference whatsoever to an eternal hell of fire.
v
That the "Gehenna Judgment" was made for "the Devil and his angels" is a statement of fact, not a statement of limitation. It was made for the Devil and his angels, and also for all humanity which does not come to repentance in this Church age.
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And just who do we think the Devil's "angels" are? Notice that Jesus didn't say that this Gehenna fire was prepared "for the Devil and his demons," does it? Later, I will show you from the Scriptures just who these "angels of the Devil" really are. If God gives you eyes to see, you will be utterly shocked!
v
Contradiction #50
Bill says that "God didn't make hell for man, He made it for the devil and his angels" (23 Minutes in Hell, Internet Video). Jesus said, 'Go and tell them about this place. It is not My desire that any should go there. Hell was made for the Devil and his angels[/u]" (23 Minutes in Hell, p. 34).

According to Bill, "deformed ugly creatures," "giant spiders," "abominable creatures," "13 foot reptilian creatures in human form," "creatures that stink 1000 worse than anything on earth," "snakes as large as locomotives," "creatures 1000 times stronger than any man," "creatures with bumps and scales and razor-sharp fins," "locusts looking like horses" "ignorant creatures with zero IQ," and "angels who left their own abode," all have reference to demons which are, according to Bill, the "angels" of the Devil (Matt. 25:41).

Chapter 10 heading: Dealing With the Demons of Hell. Bill quotes Matt. 25:41 as referring to "...the Demons of Hell" - "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his ANGELS." So clearly Bill is teaching that "the devil and his angels" is referring to "...the Demons of Hell" (23 Minutes in Hell, p. 123).

"I was along side this pit of fire and I saw all these demons all lined up along the walls, all sizes and shapes of every kind, deformed, ugly creatures, you can imagine.  They were twisted, deformed creatures, huge ones, small ones.  There were giant spiders, huge spiders this big [Bill gestures 5 feet tall]...There are all kinds of abominable creatures everywhere and they seemed to be chained to the walls.  I wondered "Why are these things chained to the walls".  I didn't understand that, but there's a scripture on that in Jude 1:6 says 'And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day'[/b]" (23 Minutes in Hell, Internet Script, pp. 7 & 8.

Listen carefully: Bill says, "I saw all these demons...all sizes and shapes, deformed, ugly creatures...there's a Scripture on that in Jude 1:6-- "And the angels...He has reserved in everlasting chains..." Bill calls angels, demons.

...But where in Scripture do we find such a description of the angels of the Devil? Nowhere!

Bill said Jesus told him that hell was not made for MAN, but for "the devil and his angels."
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"Oh, what tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

No, demons are not angels, and angels are not demons, and there is not one Scripture to support such a theory.

The "angels of God" (Matt 25:31) and the "angels of the Devil" (Matt. 25:31) are the same Greek word, #32, 'angelos,' and the definition of this Greek word is: 'an angel, messenger, or pastor.' (Strong's Greek Dictionary). Nowhere is this word defined as "a demon."

Although the King James does not use the word "demon(s)," At numerous places in Scripture the word "daimon"--meaning 'demon' is found. Example, the word "devils" found in Matt. 8:31 is 'daimon' in the Greek manuscripts. Various English Versions translate 'daimon' into "demons" rather than "devils." But "demons/daimons" are never, ever translated "angels." Whoever or whatever the angels of the Devil are, they assuredly are not invisible or visible huge, ugly, deformed, alien monsters, which Bill calls "demons," "chained angels," and "angels of the Devil."

Please notice once more the definition of "angelos"--"an angel, messenger, or PASTOR" (Dr. Strong's Greek Dictionary #32, 'angelos').
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The Scriptures give us many examples of the things that deceive people, but nowhere do we find that people are deceived by such repugnant monsters as Bill says populate hell. Would you like to see just what things the Bible tells us can cause people to be deceived? Here are a few:

Trusting in good works (Luke 18:9-14): Wonderful works (Matt. 7:22)
 
Miracle workers (Rev. 13:14, 16:14 & 19:20)
 
Those who speak with enticing persuasive words (Col. 2:4)
 
Coming in the Name of Jesus (Matt. 24:5; Mark 13:3)
 
Saying that Christ IS the Christ (Luke 21:08)
 
Imposters claiming to be apostles of Christ (II Cor. 11:13)
 
Sorceries (use of drugs & medications)--Gk: 'pharmakeia' (Rev. 18:23)
 
Great signs and lying wonders (Matt. 24:24; II Thes. 2:9)
 
Cunning craftiness (adroitness, trickery) and sleight (fraud) (Eph. 4:14)
 
False doctrines (Eph. 4:14). - Like most people will burn for all eternity
 
Good words and fair speeches (Rom. 16:17)
 
Ministers of righteousness (II Cor. 11:15)

And who do we think Satan uses to accomplish such deception as the twelve points mentioned above? Why Satan's angels; Satan's ministers of course:

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (II Cor. 11:14-15)

Do you really believe that "the whole world" (Rev. 12:9) including 2,000,000,000 Christians are deceived by these alien monsters as Bill describes? Do you really believe that millions of highly educated Christians, and highly educated non-Christians--doctors, engineers, scientists, artists, and scholars are deceived by such grotesque and repugnant creatures with "zero IQ's?" No, Satan's "ministers of righteousness" are anything but ugly and stupid. They will deceive you!
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The Scriptures give us three categories of Agents of Satan the Devil:
MESSENGERS: Only once in Scripture do we read of "a messenger of Satan" (II Cor. 12:7). Messenger is here translated from Dr. Strong's #32 'angelos' which means: "a messenger, especially an angel, a pastor." Some Versions translate II Cor. 12:7 as "an angel of Satan" (Moffatt Translation); "an angel of Satan" (Emphatic Diaglott); "one of Satan's angels" (Phillip's Modern English New Testament). The Greek word 'angelos' has three meanings: "angel, messenger, and pastor." "Demon" is NOT a definition of angelos!

Of the hundreds and hundreds of different translations of the Scriptures, I know of none that translated the word "angelos" as "demon." And so we have conclusive proof from the Scriptures "the Devil's angels" are mortal men. The false prophet of Acts 13:6; the Pharisees whom Jesus called "children of the Wicked one" in Matt. 13:38; those Pharisees whom Jesus said had the Devil for their father in John 8:44; Satan's "ministers of righteousness" in II Cor. 11:14-15); are all human, mortal men, not spirits--despicable, disgusting, dirty, demons!
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No one has ever seen a real demon as they are spirit, and they are not visible. We are never told that we might on occasion entertain "demons unaware," as we might entertain angels (Heb. 3:2).

"Angels," however, can be either visible or invisible, and are often called "men." Sometimes they seem to be manifested as physical men (Acts 10:3 & 30 and Luke 24:4), but in reality they are actually spirit beings. Mortal men when used of God are called angels or messengers which, like all men, are destined to die. However, spirit angels in Heaven can never die:

"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" (Luke 20:36).

Heavenly angels are spirit and can never die, but are able at times to manifest themselves as if they were normal mortal men:

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares" (Heb. 13:2).
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Only God's innermost dedicated, commandment obeying, spirit converted followers cannot be deceived:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).

The Apostle John calls the Church of Jesus Christ, "the ELECT Lady"

"The elder unto the elect Lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth" (II John 1:1).

The "elect lady and her children" are those "few chosen" out of the "many called." And these "FEW chosen," cannot be deceived as the "MANY called" are deceived by "the Devil and his angels, which deceive the whole world" (Rev. 12:9).
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Satan deceives the world (except for the "few chosen ELECT" of God) through his own ministers. The Devil's angels are the Devil's ministers, and they are mortal men, not hideous, animalistic, monsters called demons. The "children of the lady" are the "very elect, few," and Satan the Devil has his "children" as well: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (John 8:44).

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matt. 24:4-5)

I marvel that theologians teach that many people will come saying that "they are the Christ," No, Jesus did not say that many would come claiming that they, themselves, are Christ, but rather that He (Christ) is the Christ. Now then, who but Christians teach that Jesus Christ IS THE CHRIST of God? No one, but Christians only. So those who "deceive many" are Christians!
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« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 12:03:30 AM by Kat »
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cheekie3

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Re: Free will of Angels
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 04:59:29 AM »

Extol and Kat -

Very good points clarifying that angels do not have free will, and who the angels of Satan are (as opposed to demons).

Thank you.

Kind Regards.

George (a man thankful to have life and the experiences Our Father has preselected for me and my family)
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
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