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Proverbs 18:21 , Ephesians 4:27

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willemv:
Sorry guys , I cannot just let that one slide.

Before I say why ,I will tell you a little story in a lighter vain . I will follow the example of the apostle Paul , I know a man who travelled the countryside on business and as in the US the roads are sometimes very long and quiet and boring when he came upon a real one-horse town with some ramshakcle  houses and a surprising beatiful church building ,he decided to stay over and booked into some dilapitated bed and breakfast place. The place was very quiet ,the only sounds to be heard were coming from the hotel . It appeared that all the townsfolk and the surrounding farmers gathered always there in the only bar. So our traveler keen to find out what type of people you find in these remote areas and what makes them tick went there as well ,sat down and ordered a drink.
The topics of discussion centered mostly about farming and hunting experiences and it was not long before our traveler , himself an experienced man on some issues, was drawn into the conversation . This went on and as it happened sometimes there comes a lull in the conversation when all these philosophers reflectively look into their glasses. Our traveler took this opportunity to make a rather startling comment considering the trent of the conversation . He said : "fellers , I really as a visitor enjoy the opportunity to meet you guys and swop stories , however there is one thing I find quite disturbing and that is that you guys don't seem to hold the name of our Lord in high esteem as most of you use IT liberally in vain and that is apart from the general foul language which seems to be an important part of your vocab."

Next scene you can imagine : deathly silence ! Eventually a huge redneck situated next to our traveler jumps up , slaps our traveler on the shoulder (who happened to be only of slightly build) and says : Joe , I am so glad you brought this up because it has been worrying me for some years but I never had the guts to take them on . Well, big relieve for our man , who then bought the next round  and had a fruitful dicussion.

What is the moral of the story ? Simple , the Bible says we must witness" timely and untimely" ( Can't lay my hands on the exact scripture right now )

God bless and may He give us all the conviction and courage to be living and speaking witnesses to the glory of His name

Extol:
Howdy Willem,

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking someone to watch their language around us, but I don't do it. Different situations may require different actions...if someone is spewing obscenities in a daycare center, it might be worthwhile to say something. But a bar???

Again, I don't think it's wrong necessarily, but perhaps not always wise. And it's certainly not our duty to go around and try to reform people. We'll just fall into that church trap of thinking it's our job to save the world (which it will be, eventually, but not now). If we go to a bar and ask folks to watch their language, and once in a great while have results like our traveler, what next? I'll maybe start thinking I'm somebody special, and I can change the world... Maybe next I will go to a brothel and tell them they're living in sin. Look out!

Let me point out that I'm not HIDING my faith by not speaking out against the way other people live. In my work, I come in contact with a lot of "party" people. Most of the time I try to avoid them, but when I am around them, I "say" a lot by not drinking or swearing. They probably think I'm a dull fuddy duddy, but they definitely see I'm different. If someone wants to talk about why I'm different, Id be  happy to. But who among them wants to? They are there to smoke and carouse and have a high old time.

I think it's a bit foolish to go into an environment like that and expect people to conform to what YOU want. I chose to do the kind of work i do, so i accept that there are a lot of people like that. They may think I'm boring, but they don't insist I get drunk with them or start swearing. Neither do I insist they stop drinking and stop swearing. There are plenty of places to go and plenty of people to be around where you won't get that kind of language and behavior.

Lastly, I would be interested in seeing that verse you were talking about.... It is not very convincing to tell your story, say the moral is "simple. The Bible says..." and not reference. I heard things like that in church. (Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven, did you know?) I did an internet search for "timely and untimely witnessing" and I don't know what it is you meant.

rick:
I agree with Extol because the natural mind cares nothing about God or His laws.

New American Standard Bible

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able [to do so],

God must drag a person to Christ. Men in a bar drinking certainly do not have God on their mind but rather a good time in the flesh and not the spirit.

God bless.

Kat:

Willemv, I will say you make a good point that if we are in conversation with others and fail to disagree with something being said that we are totally in disagreement with, it may appear that we are in agreement with them. But as Jesse was saying, certainly you would expect foul language in a bar... maybe it's a better idea to give care to where you go.

Now many times people post on here and make mention of a Scripture reference without chapter and verse and that is fine, because I either know what they are referring to, or can look it up easily by their paraphrase of it. For me it is of utmost important to have Scripture to verify whatever is being said, as we know all too well the need to pay close attention to all the words, even then the translation must be taken into consideration. I myself have thought quotes I knew were Scriptural only to find out they were not, and I certainly realize my memory is not always accurate... so I need to see a Scripture and a 2nd witness is very good even necessary as well.

Now you gave a interesting story with the very principle of it being that the Bible says we must witness" timely and untimely".  I like Jesse could find no such reference to that in Scripture, maybe if you found the verse in question it would give your opinion credence. But there is more than one way (speaking out) to bear witness of the truth, notice what Christ said.

John 10:25  Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

John 5:36  But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.

Jesus seems to be saying there that actions speak louder than words. For me personally it is a great task, not without shortcomings even with the help of the Spirit, to set a proper example to those around me, all the time and certainly not just as a show, but in all sincerity.

1Peter 3:8  To conclude: you must all have the same attitude and the same feelings; love one another, and be kind and humble with one another.
v. 9  Do not pay back evil with evil or cursing with cursing; instead, pay back with a blessing, because a blessing is what God promised to give you when He called you.
v. 10  As the scripture says, "If you want to enjoy life and wish to see good times, you must keep from speaking evil and stop telling lies.
v. 11  You must turn away from evil and do good; you must strive for peace with all your heart.
v. 12  For the Lord watches over the righteous and listens to their prayers; but He opposes those who do evil."
v. 13  Who will harm you if you are eager to do what is good?
v. 14  But even if you should suffer for doing what is right, how happy you are! Do not be afraid of anyone, and do not worry.
v. 15  But have reverence for Christ in your hearts, and honor Him as Lord. Be ready at all times to answer anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you,
v. 16  but do it with gentleness and respect. Keep your conscience clear, so that when you are insulted, those who speak evil of your good conduct as followers of Christ will become ashamed of what they say. (GNB)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Dave in Tenn:
Maybe this is the scripture Willem was suggesting?

2Ti 4:1  I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5  But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Whether or not this includes "the world" is open to question.  I don't much think so, but how deeply into the "church" one should strive is addressed elsewhere in Scripture, as this one is not it's own interpretation.

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