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Author Topic: Usury  (Read 1430 times)

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cheekie3

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Usury
« on: June 03, 2016, 09:24:57 AM »

All -

Did Ray teach on 'usury'.

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George.
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Usury
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2016, 09:48:07 AM »

Don't know, but usury works both ways. If you put money in the bank and they pay you interest. That's also usury.
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cheekie3

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Re: Usury
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 10:12:37 AM »

Dennis Vogel -

Don't know, but usury works both ways. If you put money in the bank and they pay you interest. That's also usury.

Good Point; and I know that is why Islamic banks do not pay any interest to their customers.

I started this post as I have a gap in my understanding.

On the one hand, the Old Testament in particular teaches that usury is not to be used amongst the people of Israel - and the only time it was used by the Israelites was in Canaan, whereby they used this method to destroy the nine (9) Nations they were to conquer.

On the other hand, there are a few New Testament Parables that Jesus Himself spoke about - regarding those that did good with the money given to them, with the exception of one who simply hid the money in the ground - and was told that he was a bad servant, and he could have obtained interest if he had at least put the money in a bank.

This looks like an apparent contradiction; and we all know that The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments do not contradict.

Has anyone else meditated on this aspect, and can anyone explain how these two aspects can be reconciled.

I just do not get it.

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George.
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Kat

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Re: Usury
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 02:34:18 PM »


Hi George, it seems to me that God is teaching here that you should not take advantage of a brother/family who is in need. If they are poor/needy and have to ask for a loan you should not enrich yourself by seek extra in interest.

Lev 25:35  If any Israelites living near you become poor and cannot support themselves, you must provide for them as you would for a hired worker, so that they can continue to live near you.
v. 36  Do not charge Israelites any interest, but obey God and let them live near you.
v. 37  Do not make them pay interest on the money you lend them, and do not make a profit on the food you sell them.

Exo 22:25  "If you lend money to any of my people who are poor, do not act like a moneylender and require him to pay interest.

Deu 23:19  "When you lend money or food or anything else to Israelites, do not charge them interest.
v. 20  You may charge interest on what you lend to foreigners, but not on what you lend to Israelites. Obey this rule, and the LORD your God will bless everything you do in the land that you are going to occupy.

Eze 22:12  Some of your people murder for pay. Some charge interest on the loans they make to other Israelites and get rich by taking advantage of them. They have forgotten me." The Sovereign LORD has spoken. (GNB all of above)

So I'm thinking in the OT not seeking to take advantage of somebody in need is directed towards their brothers or family. But what is being spoken of by Jesus in Luke it is speaking of a lawful banker.

Luke 19:23  Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?'

It's almost like Jesus was saying to the "wicked servant," if you're not going to do anything good with what you were given, you could have at least given it to the banker (who is both lender and borrower) so that it could be put to use and he would have made some profit back in interest.

That's my take on it anyway.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 03:40:13 PM by Kat »
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jingle52

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Re: Usury
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 03:47:53 PM »

Hi Kat,
Just a thought Ö. Didnít Ray teach that all parables have a spiritual application or teaching? I interpreted this particular parable as the wicked man having been given a small portion of Godís spirit and he did not do anything good with it such as developing one of the fruits of the spirit. If he had worked hard on developing at least one fruit (equal to the one talent , and the interest could mean that Jesus as the banker would have given him a little more of the holy spirit to work on developing another fruit which would be the interest), then Jesus would not have been so angry with him.  The others all developed their fruit with the portion of the spirit given to them and they made good use of it by developing it and much more than what was expected of them - This is how I see it, and maybe Iím way off the mark here, I also need help in understanding this parable. As I said, just a thought.
Thanks
Jingle
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Kat

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Re: Usury
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 07:09:16 PM »


Well Jingle, we do have to comprehend the literal meaning first (even thought it's not a real event) before we can move on the grasp the higher spiritual meaning of a parable. So I tried to show what I felt was mean in the literal sense, the base meaning of the parable.

If you are looking at the spiritual application then as you were showing, then those things in the story become symbols that represent something else.

Luke 19:23  Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?'

If we look at Jesus as the nobleman that went into a far country (verse 12), then I don't think He would be the bank, a worldly establishment. So these ten were called "His servants" (verse 13) and they were given minas or spiritual gifts, like you were saying, to use to serve the body of Christ.

1Cor 12:4  There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1Cor 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

1Cor 14:12  Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

But the "wicked servant" hid his minas/gift and did not use it to serve the body/church or anybody at all... could the "bank" be representative of the world? Did Christ mean if he wasn't going to use his gift to help the church, then he should have at least used it to help those in the world he knew? Because as the parable goes on the minas/gift was taken back and the wicked servant lost all he had in Christ then.

Luke 12:47  And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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jingle52

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Re: Usury
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 05:21:17 AM »

Hi Kat,
thank you for correcting me re the banker. I can always rely on your insights and calm manner in correcting me and others who are not there yet, but are slowly, one step at a time grasping these wonderful Truths in a spiritual way. Long way to go yet for me, may our Creator God through His Son, help us all in this wonderful family.

Jingle
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