A separate people?

[Mike Gagne]

Hi every one,

Joe 2:2  A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Do you think the elect will have a distinction from the others ? and if so do you think it will be for the rest of there future? Theres a few scriptures on the double portion. I know I heard LRay say that the elect are the Kingdom of God, And I once heard him say that King David will not be in the Kingdom Of God, Was he just referring until he comes out of the fire? Or will the elect aways be the elect who will have a double portion?  Heres a couple double portion scriptures

Isa 61:7  For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

Isaiah 40:2   (KJV)

2  Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.

Deuteronomy 21:17   (KJV)

17  But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.

Job 42:10   (KJV)

10  And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

2 Corinthians 4:17   (KJV)

17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;


Thanks Michael

[Mike Gagne]

Should have put this in the original post, 

Does the first fruit and then the first of the first fruits and then the full harvest also have something to do with this?

Thanks Michael

[Kat]

Hi every one,

Joe 2:2  A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Do you think the elect will have a distinction from the others ? and if so do you think it will be for the rest of there future? Theres a few scriptures on the double portion. I know I heard LRay say that the elect are the Kingdom of God, And I once heard him say that King David will not be in the Kingdom Of God, Was he just referring until he comes out of the fire? Or will the elect aways be the elect who will have a double portion?  Heres a couple double portion scriptures

Should have put this in the original post, 

Does the first fruit and then the first of the first fruits and then the full harvest also have something to do with this?

Thanks Michael

Hi Michael,

Those who are in the first resurrection will reign with Christ eonian - for the age or however long the great white throne - lake of fire judgments last.

2Tim 2:12  If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

1Cor 15:25  For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

So those in the first resurrection are the only ones that will reign with Christ. Once all mankind are brought into the kingdom (that would include King David), of course the elect will no longer reign over them. Everybody will be one with God, sons and daughters of God, they would all be equals in the family of God and God will be all things to all/everybody.

1Cor 15:28  Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Here are a few emails on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10063.msg85615.html#msg85615 ---

Dear Robert:  Entering into the Kingdom of God has absolutely, totally, nothing whatsoever to do with whether all humanity will ultimately be "saved" or not.

Only the chosen elect few will enter into the Kingdom of God which is a special "eonian--age abiding" reward for those called and chosen in this church age. Those resurrected to judgment who do not enter the Kingdom will, nonetheless,

receive salvation through their judgment period. That is the whole purpose FOR the Kingdom of God being establish on this earth after Christ's return--TO SAVE THE WORLD:  "When [not now, not in this age, but 'WHEN'] Thy judgments

are in the earth the inhabitants OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).  Yes they will, and I don't care how many hundreds of thousands of minister lie to their congregations trying to tell them that most of the world will never learn righteousness, and most of the world will be tortured in some fiery hellhole of terrorism for all eternity.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1529.0.html ------------------

Dear Laura:
The "Kingdom of God" is the kingdom that will rule the nations under the Kingship of Jesus Christ, composed of lesser kings, lords, priests, and judges.  These kings, lords, priests, and judges, are composed of the ranks of God's Chosen Elect Saints.

Only those worthy of the First resurrection from the death will ever rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God. Those who are judged, purified and saved in the Great White Throne Judgment will be in God's family, but they will never be rulers with Christ.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6845.0.html -----------------------

Dear Matt:  You must learn to read the Scriptures more closely. Luke 1:33
        does NOT say that Jesus'  "reign" shall never end.  It is the things "OF His
        kingdom" that shall never end. The things pertaining TO or OF the Kingdom.
        The things accomplished in, by, and through His reign will "never end."

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6964.0.html -----------------------

Dear Danny: I have only been asked that question a couple of times in nine years, but believe it or not the very email I just answered before yours asked the same question. This sort of thing happens maybe once every few years, so maybe God is showing me that it is time to talk about it. We have but three Scriptures which speak directly on things that endure the consummation of the ages, and continue throughout the Kingdom of God, and are stated to "have no end," or suggest "no end."  I will not speculate at this time beyond what the Scriptures specifically tell us, although I believe there is move to be gleaned from them, but I will reserve my thoughts on that till a later date.

    [1]   Luk 1:33-- And He [Jesus] shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever [Gk: 'eons'--plural]; and OF  His kingdom [His 'kingdom,' not His 'reign'] there shall be no end.

    COMMENT:  Jesus' "reign" lasts "for the eons," or "a thousand years." I will explain the spiritual meaning of "a thousand years" in future Installments of my "Lake of Fire" series. So the reign of Jesus ends (I Cor. 15:25), but what was accomplished through His reign (that which is "OF" His Kingdom), will have "NO end."

    [2]  (KJV) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end

    (ASV) Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end

    (Bishops)  He shall make no ende to encrease the rule & peace

    (CLV) To the increase of the chieftainship, and to the welfare shall be no end

    (Rotherham) Of the increase of dominion, and of prosperity, There shall be no end—

    (YLT) To the increase of the princely power, And of peace, there is no end

    COMMENT:  So these things will not only continue into eternity, they will increase:  "government & peace," "rule & peace," "chieftain ship & welfare," "dominion & prosperity," "princely power & peace."

    [3]  "That God may be ALL in all" (I Cor. 15:28).

    COMMENT:  I believe that the "may be" in this verse carries the connotation that after all the things that go before (Jesus bringing ALL enemies into subjection and death abolished) that the next phase of God's purpose is now read to BEGIN.  I do not believe that God being "All in all" is the "end" but the "beginning" of a whole new world!  I may have more to say on this in future studies.

    God be with you,
    Ray

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Kat
LRay comments

COMMENT:  Jesus' "reign" lasts "for the eons," or "a thousand years." I will explain the spiritual meaning of "a thousand years" in future Installments of my "Lake of Fire" series. So the reign of Jesus ends (I Cor. 15:25), but what was accomplished through His reign (that which is "OF" His Kingdom), will have "NO end."

    [2]  (KJV) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end

    (ASV) Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end

    (Bishops)  He shall make no ende to encrease the rule & peace

    (CLV) To the increase of the chieftainship, and to the welfare shall be no end

    (Rotherham) Of the increase of dominion, and of prosperity, There shall be no end—

    (YLT) To the increase of the princely power, And of peace, there is no end

    COMMENT:  So these things will not only continue into eternity, they will increase:  "government & peace," "rule & peace," "chieftain ship & welfare," "dominion & prosperity," "princely power & peace."

    [3]  "That God may be ALL in all" (I Cor. 15:28).

    COMMENT:  I believe that the "may be" in this verse carries the connotation that after all the things that go before (Jesus bringing ALL enemies into subjection and death abolished) that the next phase of God's purpose is now read to BEGIN.  I do not believe that God being "All in all" is the "end" but the "beginning" of a whole new world!  I may have more to say on this in future studies.

So in this new world, is he saying that their will be government. Thats what i get from it and if so I am wondering will all the elect make up that government. Is that maybe what the double portion might be, or do you think that is to only applying to reigning with Jesus in the thousand year reign?  Maybe these question shouldn't be asked but thats what i am getting from this.

Thanks again , I always get so much from the post here, as specially when I read over them a few times.

Michael

[Kat]

Hi Michael, His government is His kingdom's reign and ruling the nations.

gov•ern•ment \"ge-vern-ment\ n 1 : authoritative direction or control : rule 2 : the making of policy 3 : the organization or agency through which a political unit exercises authority 4 : the complex of institutions, laws, and customs through which a political unit is governed 5 : the governing body.

This will of course be the elect as the spiritual rulers under Christ. But I would think it would also incorporate those in the world, there would be many people that ruled in this age that proved they serve God in righteousness, think of the OT patriarchs and the prophets. His government will replace this world's rulers and laws and would quickly encompass the whole world and have no end.

Isa 9:6  For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government (dominion -Rotherham; princely power -Young's; chieftainship -Concordant) will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
v. 7  Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever (unto the age -Young's). The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rick]

Hi Michael,

Just to show off the goodness of God and boast of His greatness we need to consider Roms 2:11 and Acts 10 :34 which both scriptures testifies to the fact that God is no respecter of persons.

I thank God that His kingdom is nothing like the kingdom of mans kingdom.

In the seed ,Christ ,shall all the nations be bless, Amen and thank you Father of our Lord Jesus , the Christ of the living God and our brother.

God bless you all.

[Mike Gagne]

 Hi Rick, yes I agree with those verse's. Lets consider a few more words of the Lord!

Hos 8:8  Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.

Isa 61:7  For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

Zec 9:12  Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;



Isaiah 64:8   (KJV)

8  But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?




Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


Those scriptures are his as well and they do declare His Glory.

I thank God that His kingdom is nothing like the kingdom of mans kingdom.

Rick I also thank God, that this is his kingdom


Psa 24:1  A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Psalms 50:12   (KJV)

12  If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

Job 41:11   (KJV)

11  Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.


Dan 4:34  And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35  And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

So I thank God that he is building His Kingdom for His will and His good pleasure, and I blessed the name of the Lord...


Michael

[Chris]

So those in the first resurrection are the only ones that will reign with Christ. Once all mankind are brought into the kingdom (that would include King David), of course the elect will no longer reign over them. Everybody will be one with God, sons and daughters of God, they would all be equals in the family of God and God will be all things to all/everybody.

I see.. so once all of humanity is saved, Christ's reign will cease, there are no more elect, no more saints, we are all on equal footing with God, thanks Kat for clearing this up for me

[thewatchman]

good answers Kat

[indianabob]

Dear friend Kat,

Thanks much!
You have shed a little more light on a difficult subject. Very helpful!
Indiana Bob

1 Corinthians 13:12
(KJV)

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.