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Obey Those in Authority
Dave in Tenn:
When I observe those in authority, all I see is lies, deceit, corruption and all that is contrary to what Our Heavenly Father demands of us - yet we are commanded to obey those in authority.
George, maybe that is all you see, but that is not all I see.
Does this mean that we are without question to obey all IN GOVERNMENT that rule over us (that invariably are self seeking and corrupt).
That's a hypothetical question, first. ALL in government are not trying to RULE over me. In this country, at least, we have the rule of law. Justice is imperfect and often hard to come by, but in the end, that's what "RULES" us--and them too. Beyond that, many of those being "ruled" are also self-serving and corrupt, though I wouldn't say "invariably" in either case.
I even struggle to understand who we are to obey in His Called Out Called Out (True) Church - as above each one of us is Christ and above Christ is Our Heavenly Father. So apart from obeying His Word (and His Commandments), Jesus Himself and Our Heavenly Father, I do not know who else in His True Church we are to obey. I do not recollect that John, Peter, James and Paul taught us to obey them.
That last bit is an odd statement. I might have missed the point, but you seemed to be starting with the idea that THESE GUYS were the ones WE should be obeying.
For the rest of it, I understand there are "places" even on the web where you can "submit" to "rulers" claiming to be representing the "True Church", if that's your bag. It's not mine. Since there are, it's axiomatic that there are also some who present themselves as "rulers" of the "True Church". Most I've seen who have gone that way are lost, lost, lost.
Paul said "Do as I do." All the writers gave instruction. Maybe that isn't saying "OBEY", but it surely was written with the intention that some would.
As for Jesus being the head and Us under Him, I have no doubt. That is not only the way it SHOULD BE, that is the way it IS, in my estimation. His Kingdom, however, is Spiritual. Many are called, few chosen.
And from you last post: I often wonder why we do not all, personally, get more direct revelation from Him that is confirmed by His Scriptural witnesses.
George, all my life 'became' a direct revelation from Him confirmed by Scripture when I looked back over it with these eyes. Factoids, opinions about one passage or another, depth of vision, etc. are gained (and sometimes lost) by study and by "the abundance of council". Otherwise, we tend to think WE are the 'head' while giving lip-service to HIM being the head.
I'll never be Peter, Paul, James or John. Not in this life. I'll always be in their "audience". I'll either understand and do what they said, or I won't. Either way, I am still "in the scripture".
Gotta run, or I'll be late for work.
cheekie3:
Dave in Tenn -
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on June 14, 2016, 11:20:48 AM ---When I observe those in authority, all I see is lies, deceit, corruption and all that is contrary to what Our Heavenly Father demands of us - yet we are commanded to obey those in authority.
George, maybe that is all you see, but that is not all I see.
Does this mean that we are without question to obey all IN GOVERNMENT that rule over us (that invariably are self seeking and corrupt).
That's a hypothetical question, first. ALL in government are not trying to RULE over me. In this country, at least, we have the rule of law. Justice is imperfect and often hard to come by, but in the end, that's what "RULES" us--and them too. Beyond that, many of those being "ruled" are also self-serving and corrupt, though I wouldn't say "invariably" in either case.
I even struggle to understand who we are to obey in His Called Out Called Out (True) Church - as above each one of us is Christ and above Christ is Our Heavenly Father. So apart from obeying His Word (and His Commandments), Jesus Himself and Our Heavenly Father, I do not know who else in His True Church we are to obey. I do not recollect that John, Peter, James and Paul taught us to obey them.
That last bit is an odd statement. I might have missed the point, but you seemed to be starting with the idea that THESE GUYS were the ones WE should be obeying.
For the rest of it, I understand there are "places" even on the web where you can "submit" to "rulers" claiming to be representing the "True Church", if that's your bag. It's not mine. Since there are, it's axiomatic that there are also some who present themselves as "rulers" of the "True Church". Most I've seen who have gone that way are lost, lost, lost.
Paul said "Do as I do." All the writers gave instruction. Maybe that isn't saying "OBEY", but it surely was written with the intention that some would.
As for Jesus being the head and Us under Him, I have no doubt. That is not only the way it SHOULD BE, that is the way it IS, in my estimation. His Kingdom, however, is Spiritual. Many are called, few chosen.
And from you last post: I often wonder why we do not all, personally, get more direct revelation from Him that is confirmed by His Scriptural witnesses.
George, all my life 'became' a direct revelation from Him confirmed by Scripture when I looked back over it with these eyes. Factoids, opinions about one passage or another, depth of vision, etc. are gained (and sometimes lost) by study and by "the abundance of council". Otherwise, we tend to think WE are the 'head' while giving lip-service to HIM being the head.
I'll never be Peter, Paul, James or John. Not in this life. I'll always be in their "audience". I'll either understand and do what they said, or I won't. Either way, I am still "in the scripture".
Gotta run, or I'll be late for work.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your post; and sharing your experiences.
I think it best, if I give this topic a rest now - and I am sure He will confirm or otherwise, that which I need to know (or need not to know).
Kind Regards.
George.
rick:
Hi George,
There was a time not long ago I believed as you do about obeying those in authority over us , of course the ramifications of not obeying one would come to regret.
We are all sinners everyone one of us and you know these politicians did not fall out of the sky they come from American family's and they are sinners just like the rest of us.
I know there are politicians who try their best to do what's right but even these are up against the Satanic force that is apparent throughout our government.
I don't believe all politicians are corrupt but I agree there are some that are. I ask myself what kind of politician would I make, would I give in to the temptations of being wealthy and powerful ?
I would hope not but until I do their job I really don't know if I would be any better. We must also keep in mind the things we learned here, such things like it's not in man to direct his own footsteps and that every choice we make has a cause behind it.
You know God has a plan and His plan is being achieved through all the circumstances that causes all of us to walk the path He directs each and every person that ever existed . We do not have free will so everyone will always follow the dictates of the supreme ruler of the universe .
I say pray for those in authority over us because that is the right thing to do but in doing so if your prayers are not according to Gods plan then that pray won't be answered so then we need to get in line with Gods plan and not ours .
God bless.
cheekie3:
Rick -
--- Quote from: Rick on June 14, 2016, 12:49:03 PM ---Hi George,
There was a time not long ago I believed as you do about obeying those in authority over us , of course the ramifications of not obeying one would come to regret.
We are all sinners everyone one of us and you know these politicians did not fall out of the sky they come from American family's and they are sinners just like the rest of us.
I know there are politicians who try their best to do what's right but even these are up against the Satanic force that is apparent throughout our government.
I don't believe all politicians are corrupt but I agree there are some that are. I ask myself what kind of politician would I make, would I give in to the temptations of being wealthy and powerful ?
I would hope not but until I do their job I really don't know if I would be any better. We must also keep in mind the things we learned here, such things like it's not in man to direct his own footsteps and that every choice we make has a cause behind it.
You know God has a plan and His plan is being achieved through all the circumstances that causes all of us to walk the path He directs each and every person that ever existed . We do not have free will so everyone will always follow the dictates of the supreme ruler of the universe .
I say pray for those in authority over us because that is the right thing to do but in doing so if your prayers are not according to Gods plan then that pray won't be answered so then we need to get in line with Gods plan and not ours .
God bless.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your post; and your insightful comments - which I agree with (especially how we should pray for all).
I am leaving this with The Lord to direct me further.
Kind Regards.
George.
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