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Author Topic: Did I not hate God enough ?  (Read 9063 times)

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rick

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Did I not hate God enough ?
« on: June 16, 2016, 03:44:30 PM »

I don't remember hating God but I do remember being afraid of God....no not afraid of God but afraid of what He could do to me me.....Im referring to the Christian propaganda.

I'm angry today and my anger is towards God, one would think if you believe in God things should be getting better not worst but in all honesty my life is pure b/s , if my life is solemnly Gods intentions then what my life is must be according to God.

I'm trying to figure out how all the evil in the world is going to make me a better person or in Gods image ?  The bible says we are either a slave to sin or to righteousness, I thought about that and concluded either way I'm a slave , some say your better being a slave to righteousness than sin but do we get to decide which we shall be ?

It's God who decides what I am or is it me who decides what I am ?  Or is there something causing me to be what I am ? maybe today God decided I should be angry towards Him , looking at my life and knowing its of God then maybe God wants me to hate Him, to feel some kind of rage against Him.

I never felt hatred towards God or some rage against Him just fear maybe that's why things aren't getting better just worst. Maybe I was supposed to hate God in the beginning before coming to know His truths but that would be impossible because all is of God.

It's true that God is awesome and that His plan for all of us is good I just don't feel any love towards God today because all the circumstances He sends me causes my life to be just pure b/s.

I hope ur having a better day than me .
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 03:51:06 PM by Rick »
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lostANDfound

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2016, 07:31:35 PM »

I'm sorry to hear that your life is such a struggle right now.  It sounds like you've hit a very low point and you're looking for answers.  I'm reading Job right now.  He was pretty angry with God, liberally cursing the day he was born in his anger and despair, and for similar reasons.  Sounds like you are being *temporarily* sifted by The Sifter. 

Proverbs 30:33 For pressing milk produces curds, pressing the nose produces blood, and pressing anger produces strife.

Ephesians 4:26  Be angry, and do not sin; let not the sun set upon your wrath,

Ephesians 6:13  Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
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Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

John from Kentucky

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2016, 08:14:58 PM »

Rick, you asked, "...how all the evil in the world is going to make me a better person or in God's image?"

The answer is found in Gen 3:22, "Then the LORD God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil..."

We are being formed in God's image.  One of God's attributes is to know good and evil.  Thus, we also need to know good and evil.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is one tree.  They go together.  You cannot know one without the other.  We cannot gain this knowledge by reading it out of a book.  We must experience it.
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Doug

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 10:33:23 PM »

Hi Rick,

Sorry to hear of your difficulties you are currently having. Sometimes getting our minds off our problems and focusing on others needs helps. To me it is very easy to look around and see suffering and despair of others. Even in the worst of circumstances we can always find blessings to be thankful for. When your anger subsides, and it will, you will come out stronger and closer to God. Praying for you.

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cheekie3

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2016, 05:13:06 AM »

Rick -

There is knowledge - and there is His Knowledge.

There is wisdom - and there is His Wisdom.

There is truth - and there is His Truth.

To me, by Holy Spirit, the only way for us to become like His Son is to suffer at the hands of evil which He puts us through.

Since He dragged me to Him, there has not been a single day which I have not had to suffer evil - and I do not mean once or twice a day - but multitude of times.

I talked to Him about each and every suffering of evil that I suffered all because I stood my ground and did the right thing, rather than what would have been convenient, and He confirmed to me that I needed to go through His Fiery Furnace Fire in order to have His Character (His Fruit of The Spirit) embedded in my heart and mind.

I now agree that His Plan works and continues to work.

I have also talked to Him about my life before He dragged me out the world; and there were loads of times I suffered during these earlier times too - so I concluded, that we all suffer evil all our lives - and even the worst of all people suffer (even if they themselves inflict a lot of suffering on others) - and yes, all of our individual sufferings (whether we are part of His Elect or not) does indeed start to produce His Fruit in our hearts and minds.

He has recently revealed a great deal to me, yet the suffering has not decreased - in fact, if anything, the suffering has increased. It must be that the more He changes us into His Image, the more suffering we are to suffer in the world.

Off course me beef is with Him, as He is not only my Dad, but Life itself for all, and He decides what we all must go through each second of each day.

Yes, I take out my frustrations on Him, and I demand answers of Him - which mostly do not come quickly - but they do come in His Time.

I understood at an early stage when he first dragged me to Him, that He starts by giving us His Peace, His Love and His Joy. I have never forgotten this - and when I reflect on the issues I experience each and every day, I can confirm that I have His Life, His Light and His Love, His Joy and His Peace within me and with me at all times regardless of what I am going through.

I often check my own life against His nine-fold Fruit of His Spirit - and I tick off the ones I am sure I have an abundance off, and the ones I still struggle with. I go through all these characteristics of God, and reflect on my behaviour when I have interacted with others (including family, friends, The Elect, and others):

1. Love.
2. Joy.
3. Peace.
4. Forbearance (Patience and Restraint)
5. Kindness.
6. Goodness.
7. Fidelity (Faith or Faithfulness)
8. Meekness (Humble, Submissive and Patient)
9. Self Control
     
And I ask myself and My Heavenly Father how I did (especially if I upset someone for some reason) - and ask these types of questions:

1. Did I act in Love, or was my motive not right. What was the motive in my heart.
2. Did I bring Joy to those I engaged with, or did I make the situation worse.
3. Was the outcome one of Peace, or uncertainty. Did I help the others with their problems, or hindered them.
4. Was I Patient. Did I listen well. Did I restrain myself and thought things through before speaking. Did I react inappropriately.
5. Was I Kind, or was my motive to cause trouble.
6. Did I do the right thing.
7. Do others trust me and confide in me. Do they open up to me or merely tolerate me. Do I make a positive difference. Do I bring substance or superficiality to the table. Did we resolve the issues.
8. Was I meek, humble and patient - and seeking His Help by His Holy Spirit in all of this.
9. Did I exercise Self Control throughout that particular matter.

And my yardstick is NOT political correctness - but His yardstick - put simply - Did I act in Love, and did I treat the others as I would like to be treated - and would He be pleased with my behaviour.

I also take note, that most people are not really interested in The Truth - and many live superficial lives of convenience - as they are reluctant or have no confidence to confront and resolve their problems and issues; thereby tolerating most peoples' bad and unacceptable behaviours (who  to me, are in the main, those that are in authority over us in the workplace - which I personally believe cause most people the most problems as they feel powerless to speak out).

I remember talking to my father about the problem he had with one of my brothers. I asked my father, why he did not simply tell his son the truth of the matter, and explain what the outcome of his son's actions produced, and the hurt his son inflicted on my father. My father said, no, I cannot do that, because if I did, my son would get upset with me, and he would not speak to me again or come round to see your mother and I. My father told me that he did not have to explain to me about this matter, and that I did not do as my brother did; and I pointed out to my father, that this is exactly why he should confront my brother about his behaviour - as my brother either knows what he is doing is wrong and ignores the fact that he is causing my parents distress, or he is ignorant of the silent suffering our parents are enduring - either way my brother should be told. I told my father, that if it was me, I would sit my son down, explain the position to him in a calm manner, and answer his questions; and if at the end of it all, he decided I was out of order and decided not to visit his parents anymore or speak to his parents any more, that would be his choice and his loss. I even asked if my father wanted me to talk to my brother on his behalf; and he did not want me to do so. The end game of all this, is that my father (and mother) suffered in silence right up to his death; and my brother now probably has regrets on how he treated our father.

But we cannot make decisions for others, as we can only give our input, whether it is right or wrong; and we all influence each other all the time (in a constructive manner, or in an unhelpful manner - and I do not like to use 'positive' and 'negative' to explain our behaviour, as I believe it is a red herring, in that these do not explain what should be happening, in that, we either helped or did not help others, that wanted help) - and each of us are accountable for all of our decisions and all of our actions.
   
And if we acted wrongly; we should make amends with those we wronged and ask for their forgiveness - and forgive all others for the wrongs they have done to us, and ask Him to forgive us (as He alone can set aside all our wrong doings).

I hope this little segment helps you a little bit, to better understand your relationship with Our Heavenly Father and Our Elder Brother and King.

Kind Regards

George.
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Kat

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2016, 10:27:16 AM »


Hi Rick, when you began to understand God sovereignty I guess it's kind of understandable to want to blame Him for your/our wretched condition, after all He did make us as we are. Being a slave doesn't set well with you, but being that it is by God that all things consist (Col 1:17), we created being do not have a life of our own, to operate independent of our Creator. I like knowing I'm in the Hands of the perfect almighty God. But we all are looking at ourselves in a incomplete form right now, how can you judge your Maker before He has finished His work? Makes me think of this verse.

Rom 9:20  But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have You made me like this?"

Here's an analogy I thought of... we use a car everyday and might take for granted the complex and intricate mechanical thing that it is. I've thought about if a person from just a couple hundred years ago were shown a car, that how astonished they would be to even look at it, much more to zoom around in it. Most of us have some idea of the general production it takes to come up with the end results. But thinking of all the hard work that goes into shaping and forming all the thousands of individual pieces and how they were cut and molded to be made the exact right shape. Then they needed to be welded together and hammered into place, a very precise design and construction. You might say there's a lot of really harsh treatment needed to build one. But just think about the sleek high performance cars we have today, they are a marvel.  We use them daily and can travel great distances in comforter and at a much faster speed than in times past. I was watching a show the other day about the first cars and people were scared of the speed, because they didn't know if the body could take going 20 mph ;)

But seriously if a car can be designed and built by a man (even that is because God gave him the ability to gain that kind of knowledge), but can you consider how much more the wisdom God is using and has determined what is necessary for us to be made? Yes we must endure a lot now, but I think it's certainly going to be worth what the end product will be. Yes we find this initial process in our development, all this learning good and evil too harsh... I'm thinking the perfect God has that in the exact right amount and degree that we need to be well grounded in this knowledge to never forget it... even if it makes us question and hate Him for a while, what He is doing to us to produce what He knows is necessary. But there's no doubt it certainly is a difficult period to endure.

Here's an email to add to this discussion.

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html -------------

Since God is good and God is love, He naturally wants His sons and daughters to be good and love also.
Goodness, righteousness, virtue, character, and love AND INANIMATE things cannot be created as a rock, or water, or a star, etc. By the very nature of goodness, virtue, etc., it requires TIME AND CIRCUMSTANCE to develop (or create, if you will) these things. And so God CREATES all that is needed to develop these virtuous traits of character and love.

Since any and every virtue that you can think of is the result of overcoming some for of evil, EVIL, therefore, becomes a very important ingredient in the development of virtue, character and love.

As God does not DIRECTLY try anyone, He had to create adversaries to do this "dirty work." And so, God created His OWN ADVERSARY, Satan, the devil. There are lesser adversaries in the form of demons.

Goes gives man the illusion of having "free" will, which exalts his pride and vanity and causes him to think he can operate independently from God. This then brings about SIN.  SIN is so bad that it needs to be atoned for. God sent His Son Jesus Christ to be this Atonement.
Only a few are presently called to understand ANY OF THESE THINGS. The rest of humanity will be called at the great white throne judging.

There was NO evil present with God before Satan, for God UNDERSTANDS all of the ramifications of good and evil.  When all enemies and powers are brought under Christ's subjection, then evil, sin, and even death itself will be abolished.
Sin and evil are absolutely necessary in the development of human character, virtue, and love.

God be with you,

Ray
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stello

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2016, 12:27:18 PM »

Hi Rick,

Just a few words of encouragement from someone going through the same feelings. God is good and i trust Him to take care of everything. He promised us that He will.

James 1:2 "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds"

1Peter 4:12 "Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you."

Jer 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Mark 9:49 "Everyone will be salted with fire."

Roman 8:18 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us."

Stello

Numbers 6:25 "the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you"

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Job 13:15 "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him."

octoberose

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2016, 02:33:04 PM »

Interestingly enough i was listening to a friends recording on You Tube today and a video (a voice recording) of Ray's popped up. You know how it knows what you've looked at before and  shows you things that are like it?   This one is Why God Just Didn't make Us all Like Jesus- part 1 and 2. As I was listening I immediately thought of Rick's post and of course I often have some of the same questions. Sometimes listening is more powerful than reading and it gave me greater comfort to hear these things in Ray's voice .  Maybe some of you will find comfort in it too. God really does have more in store for us then we ask or think...... it's going to be amazing. And worth it. And we'll understand. Right now is painful, but morning is coming. This is what came to my mind while I was listening-
For his anger lasts only a moment,
    but his favor lasts a lifetime;
weeping may stay for the night,
    but rejoicing comes in the morning. Psalms 30:5
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »


Hi Rick, when you began to understand God sovereignty I guess it's kind of understandable to want to blame Him for your/our wretched condition, after all He did make us as we are. Being a slave doesn't set well with you, but being that it is by God that all things consist (Col 1:17), we created being do not have a life of our own, to operate independent of our Creator. I like knowing I'm in the Hands of the perfect almighty God. But we all are looking at ourselves in a incomplete form right now, how can you judge your Maker before He has finished His work? Makes me think of this verse.

Rom 9:20  But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have You made me like this?"

Here is another beautiful verse given this perspective that I think really hits this home;

Hebrews 2
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The Great God and our Savior Jesus Christ will not abandon us Rick!

Our struggles are painful, they are frustrating, they seem unfair at times, they are an evil, but we are so special to God that He steps down into the flesh to die for us and promises us a future redemption where in we shall see Him as He is for we will be like Him.

He is coming soon for us brother! Hold fast to His Word. He is faithful!

Love,
Alex
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 02:40:41 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

AwesomeSavior

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2016, 06:00:08 PM »

Rick:

I can sympathize with your feelings, because I HAVE experienced both anger and rage towards God since first coming to BT back in 2005. The first period of it was in that same year, when I realized that most of the things I learned in my church were b.s. It took about a year for me to get over that. The second, and even more dramatic example of anger was four years ago, when the Lord arranged such agonizing circumstances at my job which I loved, that I eventually had no other choice but to quit. I could not understand why events at my workplace were spiraling downhill for the previous eight months, until one day after much agony, the solution popped in my head. The Lord wanted me to leave, and was slowly making things unbearable for me at that place. Looking back on it (like John in Revelation), I now know why he had me to leave, as He wanted me out of Florida and back to Michigan, to be here with and for my family. That second experience reminds me of both the book of Revelation, where John "looks back" and then is shown the whole revelation of the hideousness of this Beast Within, and also Daniel's description of it in Chapter 7, verses 7 and 8. I also have become MUCH MORE AWARE of the devil's constant "fiery darts" that he throws at me, and how to "resist the devil", but I'm not perfect. We are on such an incredible salvation process!
 
The Lord lead me last night, and also this morning, to watch another program and read even more details on what Christ went through during his crown of thorns, whippings with cat o nine tails, and the asphyxiation death he suffered on that cross. I don't think there was one square inch of his body that was not bleeding. Sometimes... God will have me recall these sorrowful details on occasion, and it's very humbling unto me, and I realize He has me (and all of us) on that straight and narrow path to salvation.

Dean

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rick

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 07:03:43 PM »

Hello to all.

I'm in better spirit today. I read each response and am very thankful for the wisdom in each and every one I read.

The things I'm going through have not been for a day or even a week but over a few years. Those things  amongst other things had come to overwhelm me to the point where I did complain about this affliction I live with everyday.

A few hours after doing this thread I felt regret for having said the things I did, I was very angry and I guess sometimes I don't always handle  anger well but after reading all that has been said to me I don't have any regrets about this thread.

I see now how Satan played me like a  fiddle and boy did I fall for it big time having a pity party for myself, I lost sight of my hope in Christ.

Kat, you put down Rom 9:20 and in doing so that broke my heart but you gave me exactly what I deserved and I thank you for doing so.

Well, I do love God and maybe my lesson was to never question God for putting me through all He puts me through.

I'm still going through everything, nothing has  subsided but I'm  Focus on Gods truths again and for me that's my strength which is knowing God really does love me and my life is not some crude joke but rather my life is about being made in the image of God and being made in Gods image is not an easy thing but I understand it's  necessary that I go through all these things in order for God to complete His perfect will for me.

I thank you all for ur patients with me in my time of trials and tribulations. Although I have not read all of Rays papers I'm sure Ray never said ones walk with God would be easy.

Your all awesome and I appreciate all that was said to me.

God bless.
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octoberose

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2016, 09:28:26 PM »

Rick, at  it's very best this should be a safe place to be truthful. That's what you did and now you move on. I doubt very much that what you wrote only applied to you ( I know it didn't) . God gets it. If you were not faithful to the Father, you would not be struggling at all. You would just fall into whatever was easiest for you to do and join the world. 
 I'm glad you're doing better.  :)
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rick

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2016, 12:44:34 PM »

Rick, at  it's very best this should be a safe place to be truthful. That's what you did and now you move on. I doubt very much that what you wrote only applied to you ( I know it didn't) . God gets it. If you were not faithful to the Father, you would not be struggling at all. You would just fall into whatever was easiest for you to do and join the world. 
 I'm glad you're doing better.  :)

Hi Octoberose,

Thanks for understanding and ur right as far as me not being the only one. There are some who might go through things that may cause me to be ashamed as their trials could be greater than my own.

We learn many things from Ray and we all enjoy these truths that are rare to find . It's a different ball game when one  discovers they are living what they learned. I learned a few things these past few days and these things may not necessarily reflect the views of this website, the carnal mind is all about self preservation and I found or discovered a mid point and what I mean is that when God calls us we feel like we are on a beautiful honeymoon at least that's how I felt but the honeymoon ends and the training begins, the carnal part of us cannot understand or rejects anything that it considers negative.

And because of this, one could feel or succumb to the idea God is picking on us or God doesn't care what we are going through but the spiritual part excepts all that comes from the hand of God as for our own good.

I believe in the book of Job he ask will we except good from the hand of God but not evil ?  The carnal mind only excepts good and rejects the evil but the spiritual mind will except both from their creator.


Here is something to think about , whatever happens , is Gods intention and everything that happens does not take God by surprise because God knows the end from the beginning.

Now here is the other thing I learned and again this may not necessarily reflect the views of this website but when anyone gets in your face it's only a test its Gods intention and carried out by Satan , iyour not really in a way dealing with the person but with Satan with Gods approval  specifically designed for you.

Do not argue with Satan , remember Michael the arch angle did not argue with Satan but only said the Lord rebuke you.


No trial to me is a failure even if we think we blew it God sees to it we learn and you know Christ is very good at what He does.

It's a beautiful website to learn from and also to be comforted too by brothers and sisters who are more advance in knowledge than we are.


God bless all.


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octoberose

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2016, 04:00:46 AM »

I think you are still reflecting the Truths here.  :)
   When I came here I thought I had found a pearl of great price and really couldn't understand that every believer I knew wasn't at the ready to learn it too.  At that time I wasn't in the middle of my hardest test but I soon was. God knew to teach me He had to get me at my most vulnerable - and that is through my children. I've always been grateful that I wasn't influenced from the falling away of my child as a reason to believe in the salvation of all. I didn't yet know the journey we'd be going on when I came here.
   God knows I Long to hear Him, long to have his Spirit stir me in a Loud way, not a quiet way. But He is very very patient and I must be also. 
  You said, " The carnal mind only accepts good and rejects the evil- but the spiritual mind will accept both from their creator." That's it. Exactly right. I appreciate the reminder.  And I love "Christ is very good at what He does."  When our kids were little and would go on an adventure and come home safely we'd say "100% survivability!" Ha, that's what Christ does. 100% and He will get us all there- each on the journey that He has laid out for us.
 God bless.
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Jeff

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Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2016, 01:29:48 AM »

I don't remember hating God but I do remember being afraid of God....no not afraid of God but afraid of what He could do to me me.....Im referring to the Christian propaganda.

I'm angry today and my anger is towards God, one would think if you believe in God things should be getting better not worst but in all honesty my life is pure b/s , if my life is solemnly Gods intentions then what my life is must be according to God.

I'm trying to figure out how all the evil in the world is going to make me a better person or in Gods image ?  The bible says we are either a slave to sin or to righteousness, I thought about that and concluded either way I'm a slave , some say your better being a slave to righteousness than sin but do we get to decide which we shall be ?

It's God who decides what I am or is it me who decides what I am ?  Or is there something causing me to be what I am ? maybe today God decided I should be angry towards Him , looking at my life and knowing its of God then maybe God wants me to hate Him, to feel some kind of rage against Him.

I never felt hatred towards God or some rage against Him just fear maybe that's why things aren't getting better just worst. Maybe I was supposed to hate God in the beginning before coming to know His truths but that would be impossible because all is of God.

It's true that God is awesome and that His plan for all of us is good I just don't feel any love towards God today because all the circumstances He sends me causes my life to be just pure b/s.

I hope ur having a better day than me .

Rick,

I posted something not too long ago that is almost a mirror of what you wrote here. I certainly don't have answers to your questions, but the kind people here most likely will provide some very pertinent Scriptures for you, excellent advice, and an assurance that God's will is with you every moment of every day.

What I'd like to share with you is sympathy and hopefully a sense that you're not alone.  I understand first-hand what you seem to be experiencing.  God brought us to this place of refuge and learning, and yet for some of us, it would seem that our walk with God is in decline - we seem to be going in the opposite direction from what we might expect, after having learned such amazing truths about the Scriptures and our Creator.

Kat responded to my post with something that comforted me (as she and others so often do :))) by saying that "for some, the walk is more difficult than it is for others".  This, in its simplicity, is profound. It told me that it's understood that we will not all experience life in the same way, but that God is still in control, he has not abandoned us, he's just working to teach each of us something unique, according to how he created us individually. We are all the same, but certainly we are created different in such a way that it serves God's purpose. We are the hands, or the feet, or the head, etc, and we each have a purpose in the body of Christ.

You are not alone in your struggle Rick, and while I pray that you do not suffer any more than you have to, I'm also encouraged to know that I'm not alone.  in spirit I'm walking with you, knowing indirectly what you are facing each day.

My life took an unexpected turn about a year ago. Without going into detail. I can say that what happened seems to be drawing me away from God, further each day, and it's brought me to a place of fear and utter despair.  I have no power to change anything, so this is God's will, and my lot.  I don't know the reason, but there must be one, and it has a purpose.

A few days ago, I found myself telling God that I hated him for what he's doing to me. I've never done that before.  I was ashamed, but I also had a sense that God knew what I was feeling.  I've since repented, but am no closer to understanding my circumstances.

I know that one day this will all make sense, but for now it's simply horrifying to me, and I get up each morning knowing that there's nothing I can do but get through the day as best I can. It's all God, the good and bad in my life, and he's using it all to prepare me.

This may not be much comfort, but I want you to know that I understand, and you are not alone.

Jeff
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rick

  • Guest
Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2016, 03:28:27 PM »

I don't remember hating God but I do remember being afraid of God....no not afraid of God but afraid of what He could do to me me.....Im referring to the Christian propaganda.

I'm angry today and my anger is towards God, one would think if you believe in God things should be getting better not worst but in all honesty my life is pure b/s , if my life is solemnly Gods intentions then what my life is must be according to God.

I'm trying to figure out how all the evil in the world is going to make me a better person or in Gods image ?  The bible says we are either a slave to sin or to righteousness, I thought about that and concluded either way I'm a slave , some say your better being a slave to righteousness than sin but do we get to decide which we shall be ?

It's God who decides what I am or is it me who decides what I am ?  Or is there something causing me to be what I am ? maybe today God decided I should be angry towards Him , looking at my life and knowing its of God then maybe God wants me to hate Him, to feel some kind of rage against Him.

I never felt hatred towards God or some rage against Him just fear maybe that's why things aren't getting better just worst. Maybe I was supposed to hate God in the beginning before coming to know His truths but that would be impossible because all is of God.

It's true that God is awesome and that His plan for all of us is good I just don't feel any love towards God today because all the circumstances He sends me causes my life to be just pure b/s.

I hope ur having a better day than me .

Rick,

I posted something not too long ago that is almost a mirror of what you wrote here. I certainly don't have answers to your questions, but the kind people here most likely will provide some very pertinent Scriptures for you, excellent advice, and an assurance that God's will is with you every moment of every day.

What I'd like to share with you is sympathy and hopefully a sense that you're not alone.  I understand first-hand what you seem to be experiencing.  God brought us to this place of refuge and learning, and yet for some of us, it would seem that our walk with God is in decline - we seem to be going in the opposite direction from what we might expect, after having learned such amazing truths about the Scriptures and our Creator.

Kat responded to my post with something that comforted me (as she and others so often do :))) by saying that "for some, the walk is more difficult than it is for others".  This, in its simplicity, is profound. It told me that it's understood that we will not all experience life in the same way, but that God is still in control, he has not abandoned us, he's just working to teach each of us something unique, according to how he created us individually. We are all the same, but certainly we are created different in such a way that it serves God's purpose. We are the hands, or the feet, or the head, etc, and we each have a purpose in the body of Christ.

You are not alone in your struggle Rick, and while I pray that you do not suffer any more than you have to, I'm also encouraged to know that I'm not alone.  in spirit I'm walking with you, knowing indirectly what you are facing each day.

My life took an unexpected turn about a year ago. Without going into detail. I can say that what happened seems to be drawing me away from God, further each day, and it's brought me to a place of fear and utter despair.  I have no power to change anything, so this is God's will, and my lot.  I don't know the reason, but there must be one, and it has a purpose.

A few days ago, I found myself telling God that I hated him for what he's doing to me. I've never done that before.  I was ashamed, but I also had a sense that God knew what I was feeling.  I've since repented, but am no closer to understanding my circumstances.

I know that one day this will all make sense, but for now it's simply horrifying to me, and I get up each morning knowing that there's nothing I can do but get through the day as best I can. It's all God, the good and bad in my life, and he's using it all to prepare me.

This may not be much comfort, but I want you to know that I understand, and you are not alone.

Jeff


Hi Jeff

I was at first delighted with the understanding Ray had of the after life, his knowledge of God was of great comfort to me in that hell or the lake of fire was not anything like I had learned from CCDs classes.


Ray said some profound things , things that were important to me and without any doubt in my understanding this website was God sent and I believe I did not stumbled upon this site but Was lead here by an appointment which was made by God not me.

As I analyze my life I've come to understand I lived life with eyes closed or lack of understanding it's true meaning .

I have reaped where I have not sown but what Ray had sown as it was Ray who put thousands of hours in study of Gods truths I understand That the choice Ray made to study as he did was the only possible choice he could of made.

Ray was totally blessed by God in knowledge and faith. I understand what God is doing is done with incredible love for His creation and when I reflect upon the crucifixion of Christ which was so brutal in nature I cannot deny Gods love seeing where such a brutal death was His choice.

I believe as long as I'm alive in this age life will be frustrating as well as agonizing with the few  exceptions of a beautiful sunny day but most days just seem to be rainy days.

I understand well what your meaning is when you say it seems like things are going the opposite way but I must add and ask is our life really going opposed to the potter? I doubt it.

My hope of happiness and security is in Christ in the next age certainly not this age, like you I too sometimes pray to God at night that I don't wake up in the morning , to me how merciful that would be.

Perhaps I'm going through the lake of fire and that may explain why I feel as I do seeing that the lake of fire is in direct conflict with the carnal mind and all its understanding, no wonder God says that we should not lean to our own understanding as it could drive one insane.

I reject the system of this world and all its corruption and wickedness that seems to plague everyone's life.

God bless .

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Flanagan

  • Guest
Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2016, 02:41:12 PM »

Jesus said " if you love me you would obey me" So I pray that God will help me to love our Lord and of course if we love our Lord we will Love his Father. If I say I love Jesus I would be a liar because I know I'm not walking closely in his footsteps nor am I obeying all he taught us to obey. I pray that God will keep me from fooling myself and ask him to help me pray for the right things.
One thing I don't doubt though and that is that God Loves me that I'm the one lacking in my love towards God and his Son.
I do have faith that God will show me the way in his own time so I pray he will give me patience and long suffering for others but especially for myself.
Anyway Brother we all need help and we have come to good place for it.
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rick

  • Guest
Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2016, 02:11:31 PM »

Hello Flanagan,

What I feel sometimes is frustration in some of my response to certain circumstances I find myself in.

The times I say no to ideas that pop into my thinking process which I clearly understand to be sinful ends up enticing me and that very thing becomes yes and causes frustration.

When I think of the analogy of the Potter and the clay in conjunction with other scriptures I understand that no one can be a lone wolf outside the sovereignty of God and although I'm held accountable for every choice I make and all choices cannot be otherwise I do feel a certain inward peace knowing that all circumstances and choices are not in my control.

Understanding Gods sovereignty is one thing and believing it is another thing but to experience it is all together different.

When I had first come to B.t. I did so with the belief that man had free will and could go contrary to the will of God , Ray did a great job of explaining man has not a will that can go contrary to the intentions of God , if God wills anyone to go against His will then that anyone will do so but no one will ever go against Gods intention and if it's Gods intention one go against His will then it must be.

I find in somethings I go contrary to the will of God when I wish not to but I do understand I'm following Gods intentions without deviation.

God bless.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2016, 06:29:05 PM »


Hi Rick, you are right when you said "that all circumstances and choices are not in my control"... God being sovereign makes that an impossibility. But certainly you can see that there is a purpose behind our having no free-will and the trials we face? I believe that purpose is for our learning... we come to knowledge by the things we experience and this learning experience is critical for our understanding of right from wrong.

This is from the Bible study on 'Free Will.'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12957.msg113686.html#msg113686 ---

LEARNING THROUGH STRUCTURED LIVING

If we had free will there is no guarantee that anyone would ever do anything right. Why? Because the will is always free, there is nothing there, no law, no principle to guide it to go this way or that. It’s always free to do whatever it wants. Always free, no hindrances. So if we think the world is chaotic now, imagine if people did have free will and God was not controlling things.

We are born in a structured environment and we are taught by our parents. We are taught how to play with things, we are taught how to eat and so on. We learn. We learn those things. Now those things that we learn are the things that cause us to think and do the things we do when we are a little older. You never forget how to walk when you are 6, 7, 8, 9. You will have learned it at age 1, but you are still doing it at age 5, 6, 7, 8, right? You learn these things. Robots don’t learn things like that.

Then we go to school. School is structured. You are not free to not go to class or not do your homework or not listen to the instructions, you will flunk out. People do flunk out, but what I’m saying is the structure is there to help you to learn. Hopefully to learn to do things better and more beneficial for humanity, it’s the derelicts that drop out. Why do they? Because they are not learning, they are not inculcating the good principles that they should have been learning as children. So they are operating by the law of sin and death, by their lusts. They are still operating under law, but those that become more useful, they learn to operate under a structured environment. When you go to work for somebody, they tell you how and what to do, you’re not free to just do it any ole way. There is structure you see.

God is putting us through a lifetime of all kinds of structured living and we are suppose to learn from that. Whether we are rebels or saints we do learn. Even criminals learn how to do things, some of them are very clever.

We are so far from robots... we are so marvelously made that it’s almost an insult to suggest that either you have free will or you are a robot, that’s just nonsense.

So we learn. Now that is one of the things that separates us from a robot, we learn.
v
What makes real sense is to be able to learn things. To learn things and based on what you learned make sound decisions.

If people had free will and they never learned anything, it would be totally useless. But the minute you start talking about learning, you start throwing out the free will. Because now you base what you do and think, not on your freedom of will, but on what you learned.

Some people will say phrases like, ‘well you can’t legislate morality.’ Well that has a certain amount of truth to it, you can legislate some morality.

You know we have speed limits for example, some people go over a little bit, but you can’t drive down this highway 120, at least you won’t do it too often or you will go to jail. If you go to jail too often or stay there too long, guess what? You won’t want to do that anymore. You can have your freedom of will or whatever you think you’ve got, but you won’t want to do that anymore. Because you have ‘learned’ that when you do this, the consequences are that, and ‘that’ is not much fun. You learn.

The very fact that we learn to do things and learn to do the right things, now that makes sense.
v
If there is a God and He is the creator God, then of course His power is just unfathomable and He knows the future. If the future is known then it can’t be otherwise. Therefore all choices have to be as they are, they cannot be otherwise. They are not free to be otherwise.

                                THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH

So God not only has to know the future, He has to know every single chain of events leading up to whatever the future is.

It says in Romans 8. The “carnal mind,” that is the unregenerate, perverted, reprobate mind of humanity, as we are before we learn to do anything good or right, “is not subject to the law of God.” But therefore it is lawless, right? He said free will is lawless and if the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, then it is lawless? So then it can have free will, right? Wrong paleface, let me show you. Just because it is not subject to the law of God, doesn’t mean it’s not subject to law.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
v. 7  Because the carnal mind is enmity (means hatred, animosity) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can (or able to) be.

So if carnal minded people who are not converted are not subject to the law of God then they are free to do whatever they want, right? Because they can’t be subject to the law, which tells them or shows them or makes them live a particular way. Then they are free, right? Nope, go back to verse 2.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

See that, we will all follow “the law of sin and death.” It’s one law or the other, you are under law. We are under law one way or the other. We are under law, we cannot get away from that.
v
With people when you say you don’t have a free will that can act independent from all of the circumstances that can cause you to do and say and think and be what you are. You say God’s in control! ‘Yes God’s in control. But then if I sin, God is making me sin.’ No! God doesn’t have to make us sin, we are sinning machines. We volunteer.

James 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man:
v. 14  But every man is tempted (how?), when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Does God make people sin? Does God make these dirty old men rape little children? That like the epitome of evil, does God make them do it? No! They volunteer. Do most of them even want to do it? They do it in secret, they do it at night. Why? They know it’s wrong. Well why do they do it then? Lust! Just plain lust.

Now here is the flip side of this. Sometimes you’ve got to read a little more of the context to get a fuller understanding of things.

James 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.

That’s what we just saw. We either live by the spirit of life in Christ or we live by the law of sin and death.

James 1:16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
v. 17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights…

So there it is. Does God make people sin? No. But when anything good happens, it’s attributed to God. If you sin it’s attributed to your lust, He does not make you sin. But people when they get frustrated they will say things like that.

There are laws governing these things. “The law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2 ), that has to do with your lust and it’s built in. It takes power to overcome it. You can’t just decide, ‘well I won’t give in to my lust any more.’ It takes training, it takes judgment, it takes suffering. You have to suffer to overcome some faults they are so big and so hard and so strong and they take you over and they control you. It takes suffering, it takes something really strong sometimes to get you to stop doing those things.
-------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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rick

  • Guest
Re: Did I not hate God enough ?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2016, 09:31:04 PM »

Hello Kat,

Yes, I certainly see there is a purpose behind no free will and the trials which come to each of us, having no free will is in reality a blessing to each and every person because it takes away the responsibility of sin from us making God responsible and leaving us only accountable for all sins we commit.

I understand fully that nothing in anyone's experience should ever be considered as being in vain because what ever one goes through is nothing less than the experience of God working out His plan in ones life .

I only speak of things in the present that I experience and sometimes with lack of knowledge of what I perceive and those things I perceive may have no truth at all to it such as I might feel that God does not love me but I know He does or that God has forsaken His creation but I know He has not.

I'm not sure how much truth is in this statement which is, God sees us as we will be not as we are ,but I never see me as The finished product but quite the opposite , a work in progress.

God bless.

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