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foreknowledge or pre-ordained

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Flanagan:
good question PG-91,  It is a rather difficult topic to understand. When I'm having a dilemma over something I just figure that in time Jesus will help me to see clearly. As long as I keep studying the Scriptures and keep trying to do what's right all my questions will eventually get answered.
It didn't take long for the Apostle Paul to have his will completely turned upside down by the Lord.
 All the Lord's love and strength to you.

pg-91:
Thank you Kat,lilitalienboi16 and Flanagan for your thoughts. Kat, I also read that e-mail from Ray which you copied here, and of course I don't say that God forces or directly causes men raping or stealing. Now, I guess I started to understand the difference between pre-ordained and foreknowledge. Recently, my understanding on this topic correlates with my feelings of guilt. When I read and believe that God is responsible and man is accountable it is always better, but when I read that man makes his choices and is a sinning machine with weak heart its worse. Do you think its normal?

Dave in Tenn:
It probably is "normal" at some point in most lives.  For me, by the time I stumbled onto B-T, I already knew I was a sinning machine created with a weak heart.  It was hardly a new 'revelation'...I just didn't know it was 'scripture'.  It was simply "true" by my own experiences.  And I'd made my "peace" with that already, though I did not have the influence of God on my heart in anything approaching something that made me want to be "godly".  We all are where we are. 

octoberose:
"I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it.  Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!"

I just love that from Ray. So Ray,  so true.

What I do know about this subject is that those whose heart are hardened and who have no heart for God have not been Drawn to God. God just hasn't drawn (dragged) that person to the truth. So they keep on doing what their human hearts lead them to do...  And we just don't get to say, "Why did you make me thus?" Oh, I ask Him  but He rarely clues me in.

Kat:

--- Quote from: pg-91 on July 16, 2016, 08:29:40 PM ---Thank you Kat,lilitalienboi16 and Flanagan for your thoughts. Kat, I also read that e-mail from Ray which you copied here, and of course I don't say that God forces or directly causes men raping or stealing. Now, I guess I started to understand the difference between pre-ordained and foreknowledge. Recently, my understanding on this topic correlates with my feelings of guilt. When I read and believe that God is responsible and man is accountable it is always better, but when I read that man makes his choices and is a sinning machine with weak heart its worse. Do you think its normal?
--- End quote ---

When you begin to comprend that God is responsible because He has design this world and all the vast amount of intricate circumstances that operate to make all the events that exist happen... and He has also designed us, each completely unique because of all the vast amount of things that come to play to make us who we are. It's mind boggling to realize that everything happening in this world is interwoven, cause and effect down to the tiniest thing that brings about all the exact circumstances that happen, that's sovereignty, that's our God. We are really extra ordinary and incrediblly amazing creatures, by design, with feelings that help us deal with things. Guilt is one of those feelings that helps us recognize wrong behavior, Scripture even speaks of "being seared in their own conscience," (1Tim 4:2) which is certainly not a good thing. So guilt seems to be a necessary function that makes us aware of our sinful behavior. Unless we become seared to the point that we no longer feel remorse and I would think those will require a great degree correction in the lake of fire.

We are given a mind that thinks, reasons and can make decisions/choices and operate by the thousands of causes that are interacting together with everything else that happens around us. As it is we are not really aware of all this masterfully crafted circumstances/causes that are happening and that's why it is so easy to believe we have a free will. Certainly not free, but we are designed to weigh the options and make decisions that we, of our own minds, will to do, right or wrong, therefore accountable.

We are so use to thinking as if we are a god unto ourself, making decisions to determine our own fate... God is far too wise to leave our fate in our own carnal and selfish hands. This is all being worked out as it must be, and as we gain more and more knowledge of the truth we begin ito comprehend just how wonderful our God really is. Just wanted to add a little more to this discussion.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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