The Goats and The Sheep

[cheekie3]

All -

Does anyone know of any two or three Scriptural Witness that confirm who the 'Goats' and the 'Sheep' are please.

Curious George

[se7en]

Thank you for your question Cheekie,

In 'Bible-speak (spiritually speaking), the sheep will be placed on Christ's right hand, and the goats are on His left hand.

Mat 25:31  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The sheep are set at Christ's right hand and inherit a kingdom. Who are we told are at Christ's right hand? Who inherits a kingdom and rules with Christ?

Mat 22:44  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Yes, Christ is sitting at His Father's right hand. But where are those who are in Christ?

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21  Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

There it is! "the church" is the fullness of Christ who is the fullness of His Father, and we are all therefore at the right hand of God, because we are seated with Christ in the heavens, even now. Let's look again at verse 20:

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Where does that put those who are in Christ at this time?

Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

So those who receive a kingdom to rule over are even now "seated with Christ... at the right hand of the Father, in the heavens." Are those who receive this kingdom in the first resurrection, or are they in the second resurrection? What do the scriptures say?

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Christ told His apostles that He appointed them a kingdom just as His Father had appointed Him a kingdom:

Luk 22:29  And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Those who receive that kingdom are those in that blessed and holy first resurrection, who shall reign with Him a thousand years. Where are those people while in this flesh? They are seated with Christ in spirit at the Father's right hand.

That is the sheep. All others are called "goats."

Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood [the blood of the lamb and His church], He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Mat 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;  [sheep on the right hand, goats on the left]

Mat 27:38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

But we can't forget that we live every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. We first acknowledge that we were the goats before being sheep.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Being the goats and the sheep, being on the left hand or the right is another type and shadow of our old man and new man.

I hope this has helped!

[cheekie3]

se7en -

Thank you for your post. This is very helpful:

Thank you for your question Cheekie,

In 'Bible-speak (spiritually speaking), the sheep will be placed on Christ's right hand, and the goats are on His left hand.

Mat 25:31  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The sheep are set at Christ's right hand and inherit a kingdom. Who are we told are at Christ's right hand? Who inherits a kingdom and rules with Christ?

Mat 22:44  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Yes, Christ is sitting at His Father's right hand. But where are those who are in Christ?

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21  Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

There it is! "the church" is the fullness of Christ who is the fullness of His Father, and we are all therefore at the right hand of God, because we are seated with Christ in the heavens, even now. Let's look again at verse 20:

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Where does that put those who are in Christ at this time?

Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

So those who receive a kingdom to rule over are even now "seated with Christ... at the right hand of the Father, in the heavens." Are those who receive this kingdom in the first resurrection, or are they in the second resurrection? What do the scriptures say?

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Christ told His apostles that He appointed them a kingdom just as His Father had appointed Him a kingdom:

Luk 22:29  And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Those who receive that kingdom are those in that blessed and holy first resurrection, who shall reign with Him a thousand years. Where are those people while in this flesh? They are seated with Christ in spirit at the Father's right hand.

That is the sheep. All others are called "goats."

Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood [the blood of the lamb and His church], He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Mat 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;  [sheep on the right hand, goats on the left]

Mat 27:38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

But we can't forget that we live every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. We first acknowledge that we were the goats before being sheep.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Being the goats and the sheep, being on the left hand or the right is another type and shadow of our old man and new man.

I hope this has helped!

In summary then, have I captured this correctly:

1. In this Age of Grace, all were first goats, and some were dragged to Him and they became His Sheep of His Fold who hear His Voice.

2. The rest, remained as goats.

If this is correct, is the following true:

A. The Elected Sheep are the minority in This Age of Grace - and the numbers may be as low as only 1% of mankind.

B. Are there different degrees of goats (e.g. those that lead the goats, and the goats that are being lead). I mean If Christ is Our Shepherd and we are His Sheep, is there another shepherd, who shepherds goats - and are these shepherded goats in a triangular pyramid of hierarchy - unlike The Sheep, who only have Christ as their Head.

So, it may be that there are two commonwealths on this Earth; The (Spiritual) Sheep Empire and The (Carnal) Goat Empire.

If all the above is true, can we today, identify the (Carnal) Goat Leaders of the (Carnal) Goat Empire on this Earth:

I. As The Elect are The (Spiritual) Sheep of Christ, and they are in this world but not of this world - is this world the (Carnal) Goat Empire.

II. If most of mankind are in, and are ruled by, The (Carnal) Goat Empire; what should the Standing and Status of The (Spiritual) Elect Sheep be, in this (Carnal) Goat Kingdom on this Earth - and should the (Carnal) Goat Kingdom have jurisdiction over The (Spiritual) Sheep Kingdom.

III. Does The (Carnal) Goat Kingdom have a common belief system; or if not, does it have a common underling root belief (other than the fact that they have all rejected The Salvation of Christ in this Age of Grace).

I may off course, be, way off course.

I hope I have not offended anybody, as I am just thinking out aloud.

What do you all think please.

Kind Regards.

George

[Dennis Vogel]

You're getting carried away with this George.

Mat_25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Mat_25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

It's a parable as was everything Jesus taught to the masses. It's a parable about the called and the chosen, nothing more.

So, some are "goats," and "wise and foolish servants," and "wise and foolish virgins," and "pharisee and tax collectors," and "obedient sons and disobedient sons," and "early workers and late workers," and "rich and poor," and "weeds and good plants," etc. all at the same time. The titles are all interchangeable.

The Elected Sheep are the minority in This Age of Grace - and the numbers may be as low as only 1% of mankind.

Where did you get this 1%?

[Joel]

My first impression was that it is a lot of teaching that may or may not be right also.

Joel

[cheekie3]

Dennis -

You're getting carried away with this George.

Mat_25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Mat_25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

It's a parable as was everything Jesus taught to the masses. It's a parable about the called and the chosen, nothing more.

So, some are "goats," and "wise and foolish servants," and "wise and foolish virgins," and "pharisee and tax collectors," and "obedient sons and disobedient sons," and "early workers and late workers," and "rich and poor," and "weeds and good plants," etc. all at the same time. The titles are all interchangeable.

The Elected Sheep are the minority in This Age of Grace - and the numbers may be as low as only 1% of mankind.

Where did you get this 1%?

I am sorry for getting carried away.

The 1% is my own personal observation based on my own experience - nothing more - as I have not found any Scriptures that actally witness to how many the Elect are, except that they are 'few'.

Kind Regards.

George

[cheekie3]

Joel -

My first impression was that it is a lot of teaching that may or may not be right also.

Joel

I am sorry if you thought I was teaching, as our Teacher is Christ Himself.

I was merely speaking out aloud.

I am sorry for posing these questions, if they offended anyone.

Kind Regards.

George

[Dennis Vogel]

I don't think anyone is offended George.

[cheekie3]

Dennis -

I don't think anyone is offended George.

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George

[Flanagan]

Thanks Se7en, that answer was very helpful.  peace

[Colin]

Hello everybody

I recall how well Ray, in explaining a particular parable, directed our attention to "joining words", such as "and", "wherefore", "since", "but".    In the parable of the sheep and the goats, we find an important "linking word".   It explains WHY a separation is to take place and enables us to identify which people will be "put into categories".   

People are going to be separated according to how they have acted; either with concern and love – or by ignoring the plight or needs of others.
Verse 35 contains the clue, as it begins with "for", or "because".

We have been correctly taught that we have no natural, inherent goodness, and we know that any loving conduct we perform stems from God's spirit causing us to think and to do good, [Philip 2:13].

We can conclude then that the "sheep" - who are described as having done those kind deeds and have shown love towards others -  match up with those with whom God has been working and selecting to be the inheritors of and to be the kingdom of God.     They will be suitably qualified to teach/guide others who lack those qualities of love.

As verse 46 shows (in a correct translation), the "goats", that is those who did not have God's spirit in them, and thus enabling them to be "Christ-like", will experience a period during which they will be "re-educated" with varying degrees of discomfort.

There are admittedly people today who, in their role as paramedics, nurses and charity workers for example, do tend to the suffering of folk in the manner they best understand.   We cannot determine their motives nor judge them; that role is reserved for Jesus Christ.   He is the One who will do the gathering and the demarcation.

We can volunteer to be chosen to join the "sheep" or look the other way when we have an opportunity to do good deeds for others who have genuine needs.     The parable of the "Good Samaritan" seems to link in here as a possible "second witness".          Colin

[cheekie3]

Colin -

Thank you for your Post:

Hello everybody

I recall how well Ray, in explaining a particular parable, directed our attention to "joining words", such as "and", "wherefore", "since", "but".    In the parable of the sheep and the goats, we find an important "linking word".   It explains WHY a separation is to take place and enables us to identify which people will be "put into categories".   

People are going to be separated according to how they have acted; either with concern and love – or by ignoring the plight or needs of others.
Verse 35 contains the clue, as it begins with "for", or "because".

We have been correctly taught that we have no natural, inherent goodness, and we know that any loving conduct we perform stems from God's spirit causing us to think and to do good, [Philip 2:13].

We can conclude then that the "sheep" - who are described as having done those kind deeds and have shown love towards others -  match up with those with whom God has been working and selecting to be the inheritors of and to be the kingdom of God.     They will be suitably qualified to teach/guide others who lack those qualities of love.

As verse 46 shows (in a correct translation), the "goats", that is those who did not have God's spirit in them, and thus enabling them to be "Christ-like", will experience a period during which they will be "re-educated" with varying degrees of discomfort.

There are admittedly people today who, in their role as paramedics, nurses and charity workers for example, do tend to the suffering of folk in the manner they best understand.   We cannot determine their motives nor judge them; that role is reserved for Jesus Christ.   He is the One who will do the gathering and the demarcation.

We can volunteer to be chosen to join the "sheep" or look the other way when we have an opportunity to do good deeds for others who have genuine needs.     The parable of the "Good Samaritan" seems to link in here as a possible "second witness".          Colin

As you have stated, His Sheep must have His Spirit in them - so they must be His Called Out, Called Out, Elect - and there are plenty of Scriptures (including the parable of The Good Samaritan) that explain and confirm who His Elect are.

I was focusing more on the goats; and I know goats were used as part of the sin offerings in The Old Testament.

I thought I would look at the first time goats was used in The Scriptures; and unless I am mistaken - this is the story:

Genesis 27: KJV:

1 And it came to pass, that when Isaac was old, and his eyes were dim, so that he could not see, he called Esau his eldest son, and said unto him, My son: and he said unto him, Behold, here am I.

2 And he said, Behold now, I am old, I know not the day of my death:

3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison;

4 And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die.

5 And Rebekah heard when Isaac spake to Esau his son. And Esau went to the field to hunt for venison, and to bring it.

6 And Rebekah spake unto Jacob her son, saying, Behold, I heard thy father speak unto Esau thy brother, saying,

7 Bring me venison, and make me savoury meat, that I may eat, and bless thee before the Lord before my death.

8 Now therefore, my son, obey my voice according to that which I command thee.

9 Go now to the flock, and fetch me from thence two good kids of the goats; and I will make them savoury meat for thy father, such as he loveth:

10 And thou shalt bring it to thy father, that he may eat, and that he may bless thee before his death.

11 And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man:

12 My father peradventure will feel me, and I shall seem to him as a deceiver; and I shall bring a curse upon me, and not a blessing.

13 And his mother said unto him, Upon me be thy curse, my son: only obey my voice, and go fetch me them.

14 And he went, and fetched, and brought them to his mother: and his mother made savoury meat, such as his father loved.

15 And Rebekah took goodly raiment of her eldest son Esau, which were with her in the house, and put them upon Jacob her younger son:

16 And she put the skins of the kids of the goats upon his hands, and upon the smooth of his neck:

17 And she gave the savoury meat and the bread, which she had prepared, into the hand of her son Jacob.

18 And he came unto his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I; who art thou, my son?

19 And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau thy first born; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.

20 And Isaac said unto his son, How is it that thou hast found it so quickly, my son? And he said, Because the Lord thy God brought it to me.

21 And Isaac said unto Jacob, Come near, I pray thee, that I may feel thee, my son, whether thou be my very son Esau or not.

22 And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.

23 And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him.

24 And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.

25 And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine and he drank.

26 And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.

27 And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:

28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

29 Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

30 And it came to pass, as soon as Isaac had made an end of blessing Jacob, and Jacob was yet scarce gone out from the presence of Isaac his father, that Esau his brother came in from his hunting.

31 And he also had made savoury meat, and brought it unto his father, and said unto his father, Let my father arise, and eat of his son's venison, that thy soul may bless me.

32 And Isaac his father said unto him, Who art thou? And he said, I am thy son, thy firstborn Esau.

33 And Isaac trembled very exceedingly, and said, Who? where is he that hath taken venison, and brought it me, and I have eaten of all before thou camest, and have blessed him? yea, and he shall be blessed.

34 And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.

35 And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.

36 And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?

37 And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?

38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.

39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

41 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

42 And these words of Esau her elder son were told to Rebekah: and she sent and called Jacob her younger son, and said unto him, Behold, thy brother Esau, as touching thee, doth comfort himself, purposing to kill thee.

43 Now therefore, my son, obey my voice; arise, flee thou to Laban my brother to Haran;

44 And tarry with him a few days, until thy brother's fury turn away;

45 Until thy brother's anger turn away from thee, and he forget that which thou hast done to him: then I will send, and fetch thee from thence: why should I be deprived also of you both in one day?

46 And Rebekah said to Isaac, I am weary of my life because of the daughters of Heth: if Jacob take a wife of the daughters of Heth, such as these which are of the daughters of the land, what good shall my life do me?

I do not know if there is any significance to this - but Ray did teach that we should look at the first time words are used in Scripture.

Although I am probably going off on a tangent here, this is a very interesting story, on how through subtle deception Jacob stole his father's blessing which should have gone to Esau; which I have always thought was wrong - yet it is in The Scriptures, and Jacob got the blessing of his father instead of Esau.

Kind Regards.

George

[Kat]

Hi George, that's an interesting story about Esau and Jacob, we know that those things that happened in the OT are a shadow of things to come.

1Cor 10:11  Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Maybe what this story is showing is that Esau, the true heir - pictures the Jews, but it was Jacob's destiny to take his brother's place, just as the Gentile nations have taken the Jews place as God's chosen people?

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[cheekie3]

Kat -

Thanks for your Post; insightful as always:

Hi George, that's an interesting story about Esau and Jacob, we know that those things that happened in the OT are a shadow of things to come.

1Cor 10:11  Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Maybe what this story is showing is that Esau, the true heir - pictures the Jews, but it was Jacob's destiny to take his brother's place, just as the Gentile nations have taken the Jews place as God's chosen people?

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I keep thinking of what Ray often said - there is a lot in there - and we all have to persevere until He reveals His Truths to us.

Kind Regards.

George

[Nelson Boils]

Esau sold his inheritance for a meal -  while Jacob stole his brother's inheritance through a meal. 

Interesting story indeed.  I also think what Jacob did was wrong, and i'd like to think God thinks it was wrong too. If you follow the life of Jacob, after he stole his brother's inheritance, you'll see how God judged him, how God gave him a taste of his own medicine.  The weapons he used on his brother were used against him.

Jacob lived a difficult life:  He got deceived by his uncle into marrying the woman he didn't want, his uncle cheated him out of his wages, one of his children slept with his wife - that is embarrassing!

[cheekie3]

Job -

Thank you for your Post:

Esau sold his inheritance for a meal -  while Jacob stole his brother's inheritance through a meal. 

Interesting story indeed.  I also think what Jacob did was wrong, and i'd like to think God thinks it was wrong too. If you follow the life of Jacob, after he stole his brother's inheritance, you'll see how God judged him, how God gave him a taste of his own medicine.  The weapons he used on his brother were used against him.

Jacob lived a difficult life:  He got deceived by his uncle into marrying the woman he didn't want, his uncle cheated him out of his wages, one of his children slept with his wife - that is embarrassing!

What we sow is what we reap in action.

Galatians 6:7: KJV:
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

God's Law in action.

Some have said that you cannot break His Commandments; as if you do, they will break you.

Kind Regards.

George