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New Testament Scriptural Definition of Sin
cheekie3:
Dave in Tenn -
I note what you have written below:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 22, 2016, 07:47:34 PM ---There's a good example. "Lust" is "desire" and whether or not "doing it" is wrong depends on the motive of the heart and the thing being lusted after/desired. It's not a bible word, it's a word that's in the bible. Replace "lust" with "desire" in any passage I know of and the meaning doesn't change. In my view, it even helps, because "desire" has less theological baggage than "lust"...at least it would until it doesn't any more. ;)
Same with "sin". Hamartia:
G266
ἁμαρτία
hamartia
Thayer Definition:
1) equivalent to 264
1a) to be without a share in
1b) to miss the mark
1c) to err, be mistaken
1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour,to do or go wrong
1e) to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin
2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
3) collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
Mr. Thayer didn't invent those definitions. He compiled them from usage within the scripture (or at least his understanding of its use in scripture). One word (depending on the 'context') may mean any of those. But it's use is not limited to the Scripture. It's a word, so it can be used in other ways as well.
Further complicating things is that there are other so-called "bible-words" in many of those definitions, and a propensity to conflate the meaning of "sin" with any number of other so-called "bible-words" like wickedness, iniquity, unrighteousness, and (the one Ray wrote a bit about) "evil". Should they always be synonyms? Maybe yes, maybe no.
My use of "you" was generic and not intended to be personal (to you or anybody else). But there are people to whom it applies, so maybe I was typing beyond you to other readers who might understand.
My personal bible-study is mostly about two things: 1. To see if what somebody says is actually true. That's the "Berean" motive. 2. To take the scripture out of the mouths of theologians and preachers and bore down into what it really says--to understand the words as SOUND LANGUAGE, and perhaps to gain a better sense of the flavor (the "spirit"?) of a statement or passage.
The first can be "doctrinal". There are plenty of guys-with-bibles and no end to statements. I have a few and have made more than a few myself. The second is mostly just for me. It's not necessarily doctrinal, but might become so by accident. It's motive is the rest of 2Ti 3:16,17 All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnished for every good work.
Which brings me roundabout to the other post. What makes a "good work"? Paul certainly seemed to be saying that it wasn't (among other things) his "blamelessness" according to the law.
--- End quote ---
I have recently discovered that 'Noah Webster' who I understand was the first to define the meaning of words in a dictionary, used The Holy Scriptures to determine their meaning.
Ray also taught, that it is very important to read and listen to all the words in The Scriptures; especially when the word is first used.
I note from the definitions you have provided above, the following:
1e) to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin
2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
Which to my simple mind, mean 'sin' is the 'transgression of God's Law'.
I have researched this, and I cannot find a single Scripture, whereby the meaning 'the transgression of God's Law' is not apt to describe the Scriptural word 'sin'- especially in The Old Covenant - and I recall this Scripture in particular - which I have always taken to refer to the first five Books of The Old Testament:
Joshua 1:8: KJV:
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Which to my simple mind, is an instruction on how to keep and obey God's Law and not transgress it (and I know that no one can keep The Law by their own ability and works).
This is what I do 'night and day' - meditate and dwell and ponder and aim to get the True meaning of The Holy Scriptures - which are 'Life' to each and all of us.
Unless I have misunderstood you, I get the impression that you are saying that 'sin' can have a different meaning depending on the context of the Scriptural passage (even though the original Hebrew or Greek word is 'sin').
If so, I am sorry but I still do not understand what you are stating.
I normally have no difficulty understanding what someone has written, but I do not understand fully your Post above, nor your previous Post.
Perhaps, you would be gracious enough to provide me with two Scriptures, whereby 'sin' cannot ever mean 'the transgression of God's Law', and 'sin' means something else.
Thank You.
Kind Regards.
George
Joel:
The way I see it, we have a knowledge of sin because of the law, Romans 3:20.
We can overcome only by God's holy Spirit working in our lives with the fruits of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23.
Without God we go about doing the WORKS of the flesh Galatians 5:19-21.
The WAGES of sin is death, Romans 5:23. Eon life is a gift of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Joel
cheekie3:
Joel -
Thank you for your Post:
--- Quote from: Joel on August 23, 2016, 11:50:31 AM ---The way I see it, we have a knowledge of sin because of the law, Romans 3:20.
We can overcome only by God's holy Spirit working in our lives with the fruits of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23.
Without God we go about doing the WORKS of the flesh Galatians 5:19-21.
The WAGES of sin is death, Romans 5:23. Eon life is a gift of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Joel
--- End quote ---
These are Very Good 'sum of His Word' Scriptures.
Kind Regards.
George
Dave in Tenn:
George, technically and literally, no mention of the word "sin" before the giving of the Law at Sinai is a "transgression of the (that) law". Of course, that certainly doesn't mean that "sin" didn't exist before the Law given through Moses.
In the Hebrew scriptures, there is more than one word translated "sin", though they seem to be very closely related. I'm not a Hebrew scholar by any means, but a perusal of usage of two of the three I found point to a definition that more closely matches 1b) to miss the mark, 1c) to err, be mistaken 1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour,to do or go wrong. Genesis 20 reads that way from Abimelech's point of view (with which the Lord certainly seemed to agree)...maybe even from Abraham's.
Gen 20:9 And Abimelech called Abraham and said to him, What have you done to us? And in what have I offended you that you have brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? (Made me make a huge mistake) You have done things to me that ought not to be done.
From the New testament, there's this from Jesus to the Pharisees.
Joh 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have had no sin. Yet now you are saying that 'We are observing.' Your sin, then, is remaining."
No sin? Not sin at all? Really? What sin is remaining? Their "transgression of the Law"? Better understood here, "sin" is 1c) to err, be mistaken 1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour,to do or go wrong
The way I've understood your posts thus far is in questioning just what law which, when transgressed, is sin. Maybe I've misunderstood too. But maybe these will help.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,15180.0.html
Let's let the rest be undue strife over words and end it. All I wanted to do was enter the conversation.
cheekie3:
Dave in Tenn -
Thank you for sharing these Teachings of Ray and the associated Scriptures:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 23, 2016, 07:28:01 PM ---George, technically and literally, no mention of the word "sin" before the giving of the Law at Sinai is a "transgression of the (that) law". Of course, that certainly doesn't mean that "sin" didn't exist before the Law given through Moses.
In the Hebrew scriptures, there is more than one word translated "sin", though they seem to be very closely related. I'm not a Hebrew scholar by any means, but a perusal of usage of two of the three I found point to a definition that more closely matches 1b) to miss the mark, 1c) to err, be mistaken 1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour,to do or go wrong. Genesis 20 reads that way from Abimelech's point of view (with which the Lord certainly seemed to agree)...maybe even from Abraham's.
Gen 20:9 And Abimelech called Abraham and said to him, What have you done to us? And in what have I offended you that you have brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? (Made me make a huge mistake) You have done things to me that ought not to be done.
From the New testament, there's this from Jesus to the Pharisees.
Joh 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have had no sin. Yet now you are saying that 'We are observing.' Your sin, then, is remaining."
No sin? Not sin at all? Really? What sin is remaining? Their "transgression of the Law"? Better understood here, "sin" is 1c) to err, be mistaken 1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour,to do or go wrong
The way I've understood your posts thus far is in questioning just what law which, when transgressed, is sin. Maybe I've misunderstood too. But maybe these will help.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,15180.0.html
Let's let the rest be undue strife over words and end it. All I wanted to do was enter the conversation.
--- End quote ---
Dave - I always appreciate your input.
On this Post, I did not fully understand what you were stating 'sin' was.
I will study the posts you shared anew.
As I understand His Laws (and I could be mistaken in some aspects of this), we know that they are:
1. All Spiritual, and require each of us The Grace of God and the Faith Of Jesus Christ to keep any part of His Laws.
2. The Old Testament (Covenant) was changed because no one could keep The Law - if you broke one aspect of The Law, you broke all of it - and the sin offerings only covered ones' 'sins', and did not 'forgive' their 'sins'.
3. The New Testament (Covenant) gives each and every one of us, In Christ Jesus, the opportunity to get 'right with God'.
Permit me to provide a little background for you - on how I got to raise this particular Post on 'sin':
To me, in my life, I find that we are ruled (or overly ruled) by 'Laws' - mainly 'man-made' acts and statutes that keep changing and growing. There are so many laws that it is impossible for any single man or woman to read them all, let alone fully understand them.
I always thought that God's Laws applied to our daily lives (like His Laws in Nature); and our governments based their legal systems on God's Laws.
So, I started to research His Laws - and I found 'sin' prevented us from obeying His Law(s).
If the end game of Almighty God is to make us righteous - and that we no longer desire to 'sin' anymore - I thought the meaning of 'sin' was important.
To me, 'Law' and 'sin' are probably the most mentioned in both The Old and New Testaments - so, I think that these are very important, and I wanted to know if I fully understood what these really are.
The first five (5) Books in The Old Testament, from the beginnings, are classified as 'The Book of The Law' - and there is a lot in these Books - especially details about 'His Laws' for mankind.
I am still studying 'Law' and 'sin' in The Scriptures.
I understand Saul (who was probably the most learned man on The Laws of God in The Old Testament) thought he kept 'The Law' and was righteous before Almighty God (yet Saul persecuted Jesus' followers) - then God blinded him for three (3) days and his life changed completely - and God started to teach him the condition of mankind and the Gospel for freeing mankind from 'sin' and death; and Paul's Epistles are an integral part of His Word, as many great Truths are revealed therein.
Kind Regards.
George
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