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[cheekie3]

Dave in Tenn -

Good 'un!

I hate to say it but I struggle with watching the news however God is dealing with me on that, I'm at the point that I don't feel the need to vote anymore though part of me wants to,the lesser evil if you will. Are we not to be concerned with the affairs of whats going on in the country we live in , so what I'm asking is when my favorite news comes on should I mow the lawn or split wood instead
Terry

Or...you could split the lawn and mow the wood.   

I must try this.

Kind Regards.

George

[cheekie3]

Dennis -

These Scriptures you Posted clarify things:

You said that the beast is "a great political system"

I don't think it's political as much as the world's system.

Rev_18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev_18:11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Rev_18:15  The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

A little digging will reveal more ...

I do not fully understand this statement:

I don't think it's political as much as the world's system.

If the world system is one of international 'merchants', how can it not be political - as Nations are governed, and government is political.

Or, do you mean, the whole world 'merchants' system is more than just political?
 
Am I misunderstanding what you are saying here.

Thank you.

Kind Regards.

George

[octoberose]

Though I still see the passages of scripture where Paul uses his Roman citizenship to save his life
-
 10. But Paul said, "I stand before the judgment seat of Caesar, where I have the right to be judged . . . 11. For on the one hand, if I am a wrongdoer and have done anything worthy of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is no truth in their accusations against me, no one can deliver me over to them. I appeal to Caesar" (Acts 25)

You pay taxes as you should. You obey laws as long as they do not violate your conscience before God.  You may be an ambassador for Christ, but your passport says your home country. Your public schools are run with your money. Think about that. The military is run with your money. So to sit back and say you are above it all is disingenuous to me.  We are In this world , just not of it.
   I have a friend who, for the most part, watches no news because she hates getting wrapped up in it all- but she is a voracious reader and will read all about it when a book comes out. But i have to say that ignorance is not especially attractive to me. Obession is not attractive either  so balance is key. 
  This life is about our hearts, not about laws. I am free in Christ and With that freedom I still vote. To not would violate my conscience- for many of you it would violate your conscience to vote.  Though I have to admit, if ever I was not goung to vote this would be the year for it. So don't vote - I do not much care . The system does not care either as long as you send  every dollar you make in January, February, March and probably April.
   

[Dennis Vogel]

Dennis -

These Scriptures you Posted clarify things:

You said that the beast is "a great political system"

I don't think it's political as much as the world's system.

Rev_18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev_18:11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Rev_18:15  The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

A little digging will reveal more ...

I do not fully understand this statement:

I don't think it's political as much as the world's system.

If the world system is one of international 'merchants', how can it not be political - as Nations are governed, and government is political.

Or, do you mean, the whole world 'merchants' system is more than just political?
 
Am I misunderstanding what you are saying here.

Thank you.

Kind Regards.

George

1Ti_6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

[Kat]

Kat

Verse 9 in Rev 17 says "this calls for a mind with wisdom". Perhaps this is why I'm confused with your post... I've never claimed to be wise.

You said that the beast is "a great political system"

Here's Rev 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

So when it says the seven heads are seven hills, and also kings, so on and so forth.... Are all these also political systems? The beast is an eighth king. If by 'king' it means a great political system does that mean the other seven 'kings' are also great political systems? Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come... Are all these political systems?

Later in verse 16
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

So the church (whore) rides the political system (beast) thinking she can control it/use it.. but the political system (beast) will hate the church (prostitute) the political system will bring the church to ruin, leave her naked; eat her flesh and burn her with fire?

Again I do not claim to be wise so if this is obvious to anyone please be patient.

Not to be 'political' but it is fascinating to me to see how ferociously American Christians are attacking the National Anthem protests of professional sports athletes for the last couple weeks. The woman (American Christians) is breathing fire towards any acts of blasphemy against their other god... the beast, the state, the political construct who's symbol is the flag.

My way of looking at the symbolism in prophecies is that they are not specific about a person, place or thing, but rather a way of speaking in general terms.

Ray gave us what some of these symbols, the woman - church, there in Revelation 17 is riding a beast.

Rev 17:3  Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was controlled by blasphemy. It had seven heads and ten horns. (ISV)

Rev 17:18  The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

Notice that the beast has seven (7) heads... Ray spoke of this number 7 in relation to the 7 churches meaning completeness in his LoF article #7 'Church Heresy Came Long Before Bible Errors.'

Rev 17:9  This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is sitting. They are also seven kings.

So we have 7 heads, that are 7 kings, that are 7 mountains on this beast that the woman rides... it seems to me this is speaking of all (the complete) carnal, corrupt world's governments of this age. It's the church and state, all the kings/rulers/presidents/dictators/czars/Popes/Archbishop or whatever, these are the mountains, the high ruling places/governments of the world in this age - this is the completely picture of what it's all about. All the religious rulers and all the national governments are in bed together, so to speak, but they are not friends, they more like hate each other, because they are both highly ambitious and sinister and they manipulate (I can't think of enough derogatory terms to use), but they wreak havoc with impunity.

This is the world we live in, both the governing body - those that make policy and laws that direct society and the religious leaders - those that direct to moral code of the citizens, are corrupt through and through and are working together to gain all the carnal worldly pleasures they can get, at the expense of the general populace.  That's just the way of this age and nothing will/can change it until Christ returns.

So if that's what you want to participate in, then vote... or maybe do something useful like cut the grass or chop wood.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Though I still see the passages of scripture where Paul uses his Roman citizenship to save his life
-
 10. But Paul said, "I stand before the judgment seat of Caesar, where I have the right to be judged . . . 11. For on the one hand, if I am a wrongdoer and have done anything worthy of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is no truth in their accusations against me, no one can deliver me over to them. I appeal to Caesar" (Acts 25)

You pay taxes as you should. You obey laws as long as they do not violate your conscience before God.  You may be an ambassador for Christ, but your passport says your home country. Your public schools are run with your money. Think about that. The military is run with your money. So to sit back and say you are above it all is disingenuous to me.  We are In this world , just not of it.
   I have a friend who, for the most part, watches no news because she hates getting wrapped up in it all- but she is a voracious reader and will read all about it when a book comes out. But i have to say that ignorance is not especially attractive to me. Obession is not attractive either  so balance is key. 
  This life is about our hearts, not about laws. I am free in Christ and With that freedom I still vote. To not would violate my conscience- for many of you it would violate your conscience to vote.  Though I have to admit, if ever I was not goung to vote this would be the year for it. So don't vote - I do not much care . The system does not care either as long as you send  every dollar you make in January, February, March and probably April.
 

God is the judge.

We both know, by the great mercy and grace of God, that man has no free will and that He is fully in control. That He appoints kings and gives the kingdoms of men to whom He desires.

Paul was very smart. The spirit of God is the spirit of a sound mind. He used his head.

I pay taxes because its illegal not to. God says to be subject to the laws that be for there is truly no other power than His.

I have enough problems in myself and in my immediate life to be worried about what the carnal leaders of the nations are planning and doing. I trust God.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

You are free from the law of sin and death, you are not free from law though.

You can do as you please rose. I am certainly not going to stop you.

God bless,
Alex

[lareli]

Octoberose you said...

You pay taxes as you should. You obey laws as long as they do not violate your conscience before God.  You may be an ambassador for Christ, but your passport says your home country. Your public schools are run with your money. Think about that. The military is run with your money. So to sit back and say you are above it all is disingenuous to me.  We are In this world , just not of it.

It sounds like you're saying we have dual-citizenship? But Christ said that this is not our kingdom anymore than it is His kingdom... Or maybe I'm mistaken and He said we are not of this world anymore than He is of this world.

Taxes... I pay taxes voluntarily only when I buy something and pay a 'sales tax'. The income tax that's taken from my/our paychecks are taken. If I, you, or anyone tries to not pay your income tax, you will eventually be forced to pay through the threat of violence (incarceration etc).

If I'm 'in' the world and not 'of' the world than am I wrong in saying that nothing in or of this world belongs to me? The schools that my kids go to are not mine. The military that works for the nation is not mine. The money that pays for these things likewise is not mine.

One of my reasons for not voting is because, as the saying goes, a snowflake does not feel responsible for the avalanche. One vote being one snowflake. The avalanche being open for interpretation I suppose. 

Btw Octoberose my understanding of these things is not the same as it was in the past. And my understanding of these things is not what it will be in the future, I'm sure. Time changes perspective I think. So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. Just offering the thoughts from my current perspective.

[dave]

Kat

Verse 9 in Rev 17 says "this calls for a mind with wisdom". Perhaps this is why I'm confused with your post... I've never claimed to be wise.

You said that the beast is "a great political system"

Here's Rev 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

So when it says the seven heads are seven hills, and also kings, so on and so forth.... Are all these also political systems? The beast is an eighth king. If by 'king' it means a great political system does that mean the other seven 'kings' are also great political systems? Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come... Are all these political systems?

Later in verse 16
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

So the church (whore) rides the political system (beast) thinking she can control it/use it.. but the political system (beast) will hate the church (prostitute) the political system will bring the church to ruin, leave her naked; eat her flesh and burn her with fire?

Again I do not claim to be wise so if this is obvious to anyone please be patient.

Not to be 'political' but it is fascinating to me to see how ferociously American Christians are attacking the National Anthem protests of professional sports athletes for the last couple weeks. The woman (American Christians) is breathing fire towards any acts of blasphemy against their other god... the beast, the state, the political construct who's symbol is the flag.

My way of looking at the symbolism in prophecies is that they are not specific about a person, place or thing, but rather a way of speaking in general terms.

Ray gave us what some of these symbols, the woman - church, there in Revelation 17 is riding a beast.

Rev 17:3  Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was controlled by blasphemy. It had seven heads and ten horns. (ISV)

Rev 17:18  The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

Notice that the beast has seven (7) heads... Ray spoke of this number 7 in relation to the 7 churches meaning completeness in his LoF article #7 'Church Heresy Came Long Before Bible Errors.'

Rev 17:9  This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is sitting. They are also seven kings.

So we have 7 heads, that are 7 kings, that are 7 mountains on this beast that the woman rides... it seems to me this is speaking of all (the complete) carnal, corrupt world's governments of this age. It's the church and state, all the kings/rulers/presidents/dictators/czars/Popes/Archbishop or whatever, these are the mountains, the high ruling places/governments of the world in this age - this is the completely picture of what it's all about. All the religious rulers and all the national governments are in bed together, so to speak, but they are not friends, they more like hate each other, because they are both highly ambitious and sinister and they manipulate (I can't think of enough derogatory terms to use), but they wreak havoc with impunity.

This is the world we live in, both the governing body - those that make policy and laws that direct society and the religious leaders - those that direct to moral code of the citizens, are corrupt through and through and are working together to gain all the carnal worldly pleasures they can get, at the expense of the general populace.  That's just the way of this age and nothing will/can change it until Christ returns.

So if that's what you want to participate in, then vote... or maybe do something useful like cut the grass or chop wood.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thank you Kat

[Terry]

I know Gods plan will be what its going to be regardless if I vote or not to be honest I don't give a hoot about voting its watching the news I'm talking about and watching politics drags me down anyway, i feel the Lord is dealing with me to shun it anyway, the thing is I feel rough times are a head and watching the news helps me to plan for what ever might be coming I know we should save a little money for emergency's but how bout food it can't be wrong to do that can it, I mean if the economy collaps it would be nice to have a little put back, theres nothing wrong with preparing is it.

And Alex the thorn in one mans flesh could be different than the thorn in another we all have our own fight lest that's the way I see it, the things I fight with daily my wife says she never thinks of at all, I'm not nearly as seasoned as most here so please bear with me.

Dave I have never tried to split grass and mow wood, you funny

Terry

[lilitalienboi16]

I know Gods plan will be what its going to be regardless if I vote or not to be honest I don't give a hoot about voting its watching the news I'm talking about and watching politics drags me down anyway, i feel the Lord is dealing with me to shun it anyway, the thing is I feel rough times are a head and watching the news helps me to plan for what ever might be coming I know we should save a little money for emergency's but how bout food it can't be wrong to do that can it, I mean if the economy collaps it would be nice to have a little put back, theres nothing wrong with preparing is it.

And Alex the thorn in one mans flesh could be different than the thorn in another we all have our own fight lest that's the way I see it, the things I fight with daily my wife says she never thinks of at all, I'm not nearly as seasoned as most here so please bear with me.

Dave I have never tried to split grass and mow wood, you funny

Terry

Hi Terry,

Apologies. I was not coming down on you at all. There is no wrong in preparing or planning, especially when we understand where the control really is.

There is a wonderful story of Elisha. One of my favorites. He was surrounded on all sides by his enemies and his servant was exceedingly fearful and asked him what they were to do. Elisha prayed that God would open his servant's eyes and when he did the servant saw all around Elisha flaming chariots of fire.

Jesus asked, Do you think I am not able to call down twelve legions of angels to my side?

We are well protected brother. I think of those beautiful things.

We are human, we will fear, we will desire control, we we will stumble, but God is greater than all.

God bless,
Alex

[Terry]

Apologies. I was not coming down on you at all. There is no wrong in preparing or planning, especially when we understand where the control really is.

No apology needed Alex, love you Brother, about 2 months ago my daughter come in to some money she wanted to do something for me and her mom, I've been very sick for 13 yrs. and work 1 day a week to make ends meet, she knew I was going to quit when I got my mortgage paid so she paid my mortgage off $9200.00 I can't tell you what a burden that was and what a blessing it is now, could be God's been taking care of things and I didn't even know it, I know I worry when I shouldn't, got the faith of a mustard seed but we know what happens to that, can't wait.
Terry

[Doug]

Terry, very happy to hear about your mortgage being paid. You daughter doing that for her parents shows you guys did a good job raising her!

[octoberose]

 From Kat- "So if that's what you want to participate in, then vote... or maybe do something useful like cut the grass or chop wood."
My point is that you are already participating in this system- weather you choose to acknowledge it or not. Ya'll have narrowed participating in this world with voting, as if that is the only measure of participation. It's not- look at our different countries and cultures, the different histories of the world in the past 2000 years. It makes a difference and how we move in our culture makes a difference.  God put us in these places and times.

From Alex, "Paul was very smart. The spirit of God is the spirit of a sound mind. He used his head."  Very nicely expressed my friend.

From Largeli, "It sounds like you're saying we have dual-citizenship? But Christ said that this is not our kingdom anymore than it is His kingdom... Or maybe I'm mistaken and He said we are not of this world anymore than He is of this world". 

 I guess, as I've reflected on this for the past few years (and you are so right that our perspectives and understandings change in time) that I see these verses about ambassadorship differently then the way they are often presented here. I don't read this being an ambassador for Christ as Excluding citizenship or participation  in a physical country. Jesus was from Nazareth. It was part of his narrative . Paul was a Roman, as I've talked about a lot in the past. Being an ambassador for Christ  not only SUPERSEDES  any earthly citizenship, it is on a Different Plane altogether. How can it not be?  It colors our perspective. It directs our hope. It enlightens us. It gives us a greater view- an age abiding view. In this world- not OF it.
 But I live here and I do not want to be so 'spiritual' I am no practical good. So, when my city asks to appropriate  a certain amount of taxes to take care of our roads in disrepair , I'm going to say yes or no. I get to do that and if you want to,  so do you. And if you'd rather chop wood, have at it. I have a gas fireplace myself but I would really like to have a wood burning one too. There are a lot of snowflakes in Colorado. 
 
 

[Kat]

From Kat- "So if that's what you want to participate in, then vote... or maybe do something useful like cut the grass or chop wood."
My point is that you are already participating in this system- weather you choose to acknowledge it or not. Ya'll have narrowed participating in this world with voting, as if that is the only measure of participation. It's not- look at our different countries and cultures, the different histories of the world in the past 2000 years. It makes a difference and how we move in our culture makes a difference.  God put us in these places and times.

You totally misunderstood my post if you think it was about 'voting.' That was just an off comment I made at the end, though it was made in jest to somebody's comment about mowing and splitting wood, I certainly was serious. No this whole thread is about coming out of babylon - worldliness. Voting would only comprise a teeny tiny part of that.

What I was focusing on was how much every aspect of this world is corrupt, and that we must make distinctions in how we live in this world. Yes God has placed all His chosen exactly where He wanted them to live throughout the centuries in differing life situations, but every single one had their own set of worldly circumstances to overcome. We choose what to accept as godly living and participate in or not participate in ... certainly we realize that to come out and be separate means we must make distinctions in what we go along with in this world, above and beyond obvious sin (murder, stealing, adultery, coveting)? It's more about knowing how to distinguish the more subtle 'worldly' things that are of no avail and can be a hindrance to our spiritual growth.

It's not about revoking our citizenship to the country we live is, and yes we do pay our dues/taxes to live in our countries. We have the Word of God with numerous Scripture (many that have been presented here) that tells us to forsake worldliness... I don't believe this is just speaking of being 'spiritual,' but certainly that is part of it. But just as our actions are a witness to our beliefs, so is what we choose not to do. If we can't be distinguished from everybody else in the world or we really living godly?

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
v. 2  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

James 4:4  Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

1John 2:15  Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
v. 16  For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lareli]

Thanks for your reply Kat.. (Your reply in bold)

  My way of looking at the symbolism in prophecies is that they are not specific about a person, place or thing, but rather a way of speaking in general terms.

Ray gave us what some of these symbols, the woman - church, there in Revelation 17 is riding a beast.

Rev 17:3  Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was controlled by blasphemy. It had seven heads and ten horns. (ISV)

Rev 17:18  The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

Notice that the beast has seven (7) heads... Ray spoke of this number 7 in relation to the 7 churches meaning completeness in his LoF article #7 'Church Heresy Came Long Before Bible Errors.'

Rev 17:9  This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is sitting. They are also seven kings.

So we have 7 heads, that are 7 kings, that are 7 mountains on this beast that the woman rides... it seems to me this is speaking of all (the complete) carnal, corrupt world's governments of this age. It's the church and state, all the kings/rulers/presidents/dictators/czars/Popes/Archbishop or whatever, these are the mountains, the high ruling places/governments of the world in this age - this is the completely picture of what it's all about. All the religious rulers and all the national governments are in bed together, so to speak, but they are not friends, they more like hate each other, because they are both highly ambitious and sinister and they manipulate (I can't think of enough derogatory terms to use), but they wreak havoc with impunity.

This is the world we live in, both the governing body - those that make policy and laws that direct society and the religious leaders - those that direct to moral code of the citizens, are corrupt through and through and are working together to gain all the carnal worldly pleasures they can get, at the expense of the general populace.  That's just the way of this age and nothing will/can change it until Christ returns.   



(My question)
Rev 17:8 says... "The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come."

So if the beast and all it's heads are the religious/political/carnal corrupt constructs that govern the world we live in, then what does it mean that it "once was, now is not, and yet will come"?

[Kat]

largeli, actually, as Ray had explained it, the beast is this carnal human nature that exists in all people. The religious/political system of this age is more like what we think of as babylon, though it certainly is deserving depicted as a beast. 

Rev 17:8  The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

I believe that this beast that "once was, now is not, and yet will come" in verse 8 is speaking of the corrupt carnal human nature that often exhibits itself in wickedness and speaking at any point in this age it exist in the past, the present and the future of this age. And yes of course the whole world - all it's inhabitants from the beginning of creation, will be "astonished" when they finally realize (in the next age) that they all have that brute beast nature and that includes everybody past, present and future of this age.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lareli]

largeli, actually, as Ray had explained it, the beast is this carnal human nature that exists in all people. The religious/political system of this age is more like what we think of as babylon, though it certainly is deserving depicted as a beast. 

Rev 17:8  The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

I believe that this beast that "once was, now is not, and yet will come" in verse 8 is speaking of the corrupt carnal human nature that often exhibits itself in wickedness and speaking at any point in this age it exist in the past, the present and the future of this age. And yes of course the whole world - all it's inhabitants from the beginning of creation, will be "astonished" when they finally realize (in the next age) that they all have that brute beast nature and that includes everybody past, present and future of this age.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Awesome thanks Kat

So the beast is us... Or at least was in us. Or perhaps is in us now. But since everyone is right in their own eyes , naturally no one thinks the beast is in them now hence the "now is not".

So when it says the beast " once was , now is not, and yet will come again" could this mean that as we look at the past, whether we look at the history of the world or whether we're looking at the history of our own lives, we would like to think we are no longer living as beasts?

For example I can look back at my own history and think of things I used to do that were 'beast-like' as in the carnal/corrupt nature... But naturally today I could be deceived into believing that all that carnal/corrupt living was... But now is not. Perhaps I would be very astonished to realize (in the future) that the beast in me had actually been alive and kicking this whole time!

How astonished I will be in the day of judgement to see that the beast once was, now is not (according to my carnal judgement), but to my surprise, the beast never left! So to me it was a thing of the past, then I was deceived into believing that the beast was no more (in me), but it may be revealed to me in judgement that it actually never left, hence it "yet will come" meaning that it is revealed to me that while I thought it was gone, low and behold it is back. But in reality it never left me.



Does this make sense? Am I way off?

[octoberose]

So Kat, when you don't mean it just let me know.
 Besides that, I follow and agree with you.

[John from Kentucky]

Jesus slays the beast within us when He  lives in the Temple of our heart.  The beast cannot live when we know there is no free will, but God rules.  The beast can only live when it thinks it has the free will to decide things.

[cheekie3]

John from Kentucky -

Interesting statements:

Jesus slays the beast within us when He  lives in the Temple of our heart.  The beast cannot live when we know there is no free will, but God rules.  The beast can only live when it thinks it has the free will to decide things.

As you, and others know, I struggle with the 'sin' issue - when we are in Christ.

Permit me to ask you a few questions about your statements please, for my own understanding in establishing His Truths (for my own life and peace of mind):

1. Jesus slays the beast within us when He lives in the Temple of our heart.

If Jesus lives in my Temple of my Heart, and my beast has been slain - who am I? Am I His New Creation? Does His New Creation sin?

2. The beast cannot live when we know there is no free will, but God rules.

I know that I have no free will, and that God is Sovereign - so if my beast is slain and can no longer live - is it possible for me to still sin (after all a dead thing cannot do anything)?

3. The beast can only live when it thinks it has the free will to decide things.

I know that I have no free will, so the beast that was me, or was in me, or was a part of me - can no longer live (and is in fact dead) - so does this mean that the only part of me that is left, is His New Creation, that does not, and cannot sin?

If all your statements above are all true, and focusing on 'sin' - the only way this makes any sense to me, as His New Creation cannot sin, is for 'my beast' to still be alive; but if I am always mindful that I have no free will, and that He is Sovereign, 'my beast' is dead, and remains dead.

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George