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Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
Hellisfake:
Hi freinds!
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Tim 3:12
Do you guys suffer persecution? I mean more then than we are being called heretic from christians? We are living in a time when freedom of expression is obvious, at least in our democratic countries, when all are "blessed" on their own faith. This makes me wonder, where are the persecutions, what is it to suffer for Christ? I can easily see what it meant in Pauls time, but that truth 2 Tim 3:12 is still the truth in our time, but i dont se it to often.
Share your thoughts
Dave in Tenn:
From the CLV:
2Ti 3:1 Now this know, that in the last days perilous periods will be present,
2Ti 3:2 for men will be selfish, fond of money, ostentatious, proud, calumniators, stubborn to parents, ungrateful, malign,
2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, implacable, adversaries, uncontrollable, fierce, averse to the good,
2Ti 3:4 traitors, rash, conceited, fond of their own gratification rather than fond of God;"
2Ti 3:5 having a form of devoutness, yet denying its power."
2Ti 3:6 These, also, shun. For of these are those who are slipping into homes and are leading into captivity little women, heaped with sins, being led by various lusts and gratifications,
2Ti 3:7 always learning and yet not at any time able to come into a realization of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now, by the method by which Jannes and Jambres withstand Moses, thus these also are withstanding the truth, men of a depraved mind, disqualified as to the faith."
2Ti 3:9 But they shall not be progressing more, for their folly shall be obvious to all, as that of those also became."
2Ti 3:10 Now you fully follow me in my teaching, motive, purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance,
2Ti 3:11 persecutions, sufferings, such as occurred to me in Antioch, in Iconium, in Lystra: persecutions such as I undergo, and out of them all the Lord rescues me."
2Ti 3:12 And all who are wanting to live devoutly in Christ Jesus shall be persecuted.
(Chapter 2 is good also. :D )
So you see, I hope, that this statement doesn't stand completely by itself.
"Persecutions" are not "constant". They come "periodically" and from those who have a form of "devoutness", such as Paul experienced in Antioch, Iconium, Lystra and elsewhere.
Follow that line to Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra in Acts. This is the "persecutions" he faced. See from whom and why.
Do you really think it doesn't happen "in our time"? Maybe you haven't seen it often. Maybe not even "periodically", but as you go on, you will. Remember too, you don't have to BE PAUL. Those he was writing to "following me in my teaching, motive, purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance" suffer as well.
acomplishedartis:
--- Quote from: Hellisfake on September 18, 2016, 06:37:32 PM ---
We are living in a time when freedom of expression is obvious, at least in our democratic countries, when all are "blessed" on their own faith.
--- End quote ---
mmm, what if there is still persecution but with different means to execute it? Times change and the techniques change.... Have you ever heard of 'soft power' and 'hard power'?
I think that if someone can believe that there is so much ''freedom'' around, is because that someone is not putting enough attention to his surroundings. The main weapons of today's persecution are weapons of high DISTRACTION--so better we should keep on focus before we end so far away from the truth.
Kat:
Persecute: to pursue in such a way as to injure or afflict : harass; esp : to cause to suffer because of belief. (Merriam-Webster)
So to persecution is to cause somebody to suffer. The Apostles were spreading this new gospel message to their world and in so doing they sometimes brought severe attacks on themselves that would lead to imprisonment, torture and/or death. Because the government of that time was very intolerant of people preaching against the state religion, and the religious leaders and their followers were hostile to those they believed to be heretics to the point of killing them, as was taught in the OT.
Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers,
Deu 13:9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
v.10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies...
But nowadays as you were saying there is a much greater degree of freedom of religion in many parts of the world, so a person can choose their religion or not have one at all. To suffer does not necessarily have to mean bodily injury... we can certainly suffer great mental and emotional distress from others.
When we actually begin to live what we believe, we necessarily stand apart from the world and this should make us also stand out... we are not trying to change the world, but neither can we just go along with the mainstream mentality either. The common/typical behavior of this world is one reason we should stand apart, because people are quick to judge and condemn, they easily take offense and retaliate.
On account of the beliefs we hold, there could be ridiculed or be condescended to or even shunned. Now it certainly is not the same persecution as martyrdom, but it can result in severe emotional injury nonetheless, if you're attacked in a hostile way to hurt us or our family psychologically, or our reputation, character or property, that really is persecution.
John 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Rom 1:28 Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do.
v. 29 They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and malice. They gossip
v. 30 and speak evil of one another; they are hateful to God, insolent, proud, and boastful; they think of more ways to do evil; they disobey their parents;
v. 31 they have no conscience; they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or pity for others.
v. 32 They know that God's law says that people who live in this way deserve death. Yet, not only do they continue to do these very things, but they even approve of others who do them. (GNB)
So we are instructed by Paul that reiterates God's warnings in 2 Corinthians 6 concerning the world to "come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord." Everybody naturally wants to 'fit in,' but we are told to not be like that in this world, but to stand apart in how we conduct ourselves.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?
v. 15 And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?
v. 16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
v. 17 Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you
v. 18 and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Hellisfake:
--- Quote from: Kat on September 19, 2016, 02:29:26 PM ---
Persecute: to pursue in such a way as to injure or afflict : harass; esp : to cause to suffer because of belief. (Merriam-Webster)
So to persecution is to cause somebody to suffer. The Apostles were spreading this new gospel message to their world and in so doing they sometimes brought severe attacks on themselves that would lead to imprisonment, torture and/or death. Because the government of that time was very intolerant of people preaching against the state religion, and the religious leaders and their followers were hostile to those they believed to be heretics to the point of killing them, as was taught in the OT.
Deu 13:6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers,
vjhjm
Deu 13:9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
v.10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies...
But nowadays as you were saying there is a much greater degree of freedom of religion in many parts of the world, so a person can choose their religion or not have one at all. To suffer does not necessarily have to mean bodily injury... we can certainly suffer great mental and emotional distress from others.
When we actually begin to live what we believe, we necessarily stand apart from the world and this should make us also stand out... we are not trying to change the world, but neither can we just go along with the mainstream mentality either. The common/typical behavior of this world is one reason we should stand apart, because people are quick to judge and condemn, they easily take offense and retaliate.
On account of the beliefs we hold, there could be ridiculed or be condescended to or even shunned. Now it certainly is not the same persecution as martyrdom, but it can result in severe emotional injury nonetheless, if you're attacked in a hostile way to hurt us or our family psychologically, or our reputation, character or property, that really is persecution.
John 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Rom 1:28 Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do.
v. 29 They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and malice. They gossip
v. 30 and speak evil of one another; they are hateful to God, insolent, proud, and boastful; they think of more ways to do evil; they disobey their parents;
v. 31 they have no conscience; they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or pity for others.
v. 32 They know that God's law says that people who live in this way deserve death. Yet, not only do they continue to do these very things, but they even approve of others who do them. (GNB)
So we are instructed by Paul that reiterates God's warnings in 2 Corinthians 6 concerning the world to "come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord." Everybody naturally wants to 'fit in,' but we are told to not be like that in this world, but to stand apart in how we conduct ourselves.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?
v. 15 And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?
v. 16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
v. 17 Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you
v. 18 and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Thanks for your coment
But its hard to get this verse to match the times we live in, the little persecution, we can experience, is nothing, I mean nothing in comparison with Paul's time.
"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus Shall suffer Persecution"
If you live Godley, you SHALL suffer Persecution, its a statement, a promise, I find it difficult to see being fulfilled in the times we live in
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