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Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
Dennis Vogel:
When you truly come out of this world and live your life as an example you will be persecuted. But it takes time to overcome and fully repent (IMO) to be worthy of persecution.
But there is hope.
1Pe_3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
1Pe_3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
John from Kentucky:
ML King was a Baptist minister and serial adulterer. Constantly cheating on his wife. We learn this from the biography by his close associate Ralph Abernathy.
Gandhi had terrible racist things to say about black people when he was in South Africa. Gandhi was a politician whose activities led to the partition of India, which resulted in the deaths of millions of people.
I will not even discuss John Lennon.
Jesus did not come the 1st time to bring peace. Jesus said He brought the sword and divisions. Jesus did not bring peace then nor two thousand years later. He will bring peace in the future after He comes again.
There is great ignorance in all things. Most people form their opinions based upon what is politically correct and the opinions of the Many. Most people do not have the knowledge or courage to stand alone. Why?
"Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD God Almighty".
Kat:
Well John I was NOT saying King or Gandhi were saints, wasn't even considering either to be chosen, but this thread is about persecution and they were certainly that and martyred for what i consider a just cause.
Now we all know Christ didn't come to bring peace on earth, but He most certainly was a peaceable man and was never given to violence, and taught His followers to be non-violent as well.
Matt 26:51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
v. 52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
The "sword" that Christ was talking about in Matthew 10 was persecution.
Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
v. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
v. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
Luke 12:49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
v. 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
v. 51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.
v. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three.
v. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
Matt 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
v. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
v. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Flanagan:
Thanks for setting me straight Kat.
As a matter of fact I have almost read your entire article on the Rapture, very interesting. I even went into my wife after reading about the difference between Tribulation and affliction verses Condemnation and wrath. I told her what you said that wrath and Condemnation is not ever applied to God's Elect but only tribulation and affliction are. It was a point that really stuck out with me.
And now I see that I shouldn't have said it the way I said it concerning Babylon the Great which will receive God's wrath and condemnation, not his elect.
Do you think it could get rough for all professing to be Christians during "Great tribulation" the like of which has never occurred before nor will again?
What did you think of my other thought about apathy from others being an almost worse form of persecution than outright persecution?
Thanks for all you do for the Lord Sister, I'm very appreciative. I don't always read everything you and the others say but I try.
Kat:
Well Flanagan, the apathy (lack of interest) of others concerning these truths that we hold dear is obvious. That's because if a person cannot truly understand the spirit of these truths we are learning, it loses it's luster after a while. For now most are not given that special insight into the Spirit of the Word, so it cannot possibly hold the magnitude of meaning for the many as it does for the few chosen, "because 'they look but don't see, and they listen but don't hear or understand" (Mat 13:13). The church does not know Christ, they are just playing the religion game, thinking they are spiritual. So it's easy to see how many have apathy, but that should not effect us, since we understand it's not their time yet, it's just not up to the individual when their eyes are opened.
The way I see it, everybody that is chosen all down through the centuries have had it rough with some form of persecution. I really can't go along with the end time tribulation build up stuff, Christ said His return will be as the flood came upon Adam's descendants, suddenly without warning.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
v. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
v. 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matthew 24 is Jesus's response to 2 questions "(1)when will these things be? (the destruction of the Temple) And (2)what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" So He gave them the answer to the first question down through verse 26 and that includes verse 22 "unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved." Christ was warning the believers that would be living around Jerusalem at that time, v. 22 "for the elect's sake." The destruction of the Temple was a monumental event that represented the final removal of all that pertained to the old covenant, v. 21 "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."
Jesus begins to tell about His return in verse 27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." The return of the Lord is at hand 'now,' whenever an elect was living all down through the centuries, so we must endure to 'our' end.
James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.
v. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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